unauthorized access into hotmail account



bobby.
07-09-2005, 10:53 PM
I need some help.

I have a case where my client is alleging wrongful termination by his former
employer. It seems that his former employer found a way to access his
personal hotmail account, thus also accessing information protected by
attorney-client privilege.

We can't be sure there was unauthorized access. Is there some way to
determine if the email was accessed by anyone other than my client?

I'm hoping we can do this without a court order or lawsuit, since we hope to
resolve this matter out-of-court.

Thanks.

PA Bear
07-09-2005, 10:53 PM
This is just about your only publicly-accessible option, Bobby:

MSN Support - ContactUs Email Support:
http://support.msn.com/contactus_emailsupport.aspx?productkey=hotmail&ct=eformts
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security

bobby. wrote:
> I need some help.
>
> I have a case where my client is alleging wrongful termination by his
> former employer. It seems that his former employer found a way to access
> his personal hotmail account, thus also accessing information protected by
> attorney-client privilege.
>
> We can't be sure there was unauthorized access. Is there some way to
> determine if the email was accessed by anyone other than my client?
>
> I'm hoping we can do this without a court order or lawsuit, since we hope
> to resolve this matter out-of-court.
>
> Thanks.

Srikrishna Komatineni
07-09-2005, 10:53 PM
And more about the IT policy that person signed with his employer...If he is
accessing at work place (and its forbidden via policy) the employer might
have got the emails (proxy caching or etc) or if any key logger is installed
he could have got it...
I have seen some incidents in my area here but most of the cases Hotmail was
not willing to do anything..Ofcourse we need to understand their limitations
as well..they cant just keep track on everything n provide it to the end
user where the service is free..
--------------------------
Srikrishna Komatineni



"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OFAssbfbFHA.3492@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> This is just about your only publicly-accessible option, Bobby:
>
> MSN Support - ContactUs Email Support:
> http://support.msn.com/contactus_emailsupport.aspx?productkey=hotmail&ct=eformts
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
>
> bobby. wrote:
>> I need some help.
>>
>> I have a case where my client is alleging wrongful termination by his
>> former employer. It seems that his former employer found a way to access
>> his personal hotmail account, thus also accessing information protected
>> by
>> attorney-client privilege.
>>
>> We can't be sure there was unauthorized access. Is there some way to
>> determine if the email was accessed by anyone other than my client?
>>
>> I'm hoping we can do this without a court order or lawsuit, since we hope
>> to resolve this matter out-of-court.
>>
>> Thanks.
>

Bobby.
07-09-2005, 10:54 PM
All of this happened after he had left the employer. Even if the employer
had such a policy, they wouldn't have the right to access the personal email
after termination.

"Srikrishna Komatineni" wrote:

> And more about the IT policy that person signed with his employer...If he is
> accessing at work place (and its forbidden via policy) the employer might
> have got the emails (proxy caching or etc) or if any key logger is installed
> he could have got it...
> I have seen some incidents in my area here but most of the cases Hotmail was
> not willing to do anything..Ofcourse we need to understand their limitations
> as well..they cant just keep track on everything n provide it to the end
> user where the service is free..
> --------------------------
> Srikrishna Komatineni
>
>
>
> "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OFAssbfbFHA.3492@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > This is just about your only publicly-accessible option, Bobby:
> >
> > MSN Support - ContactUs Email Support:
> > http://support.msn.com/contactus_emailsupport.aspx?productkey=hotmail&ct=eformts
> > --
> > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
> >
> > bobby. wrote:
> >> I need some help.
> >>
> >> I have a case where my client is alleging wrongful termination by his
> >> former employer. It seems that his former employer found a way to access
> >> his personal hotmail account, thus also accessing information protected
> >> by
> >> attorney-client privilege.
> >>
> >> We can't be sure there was unauthorized access. Is there some way to
> >> determine if the email was accessed by anyone other than my client?
> >>
> >> I'm hoping we can do this without a court order or lawsuit, since we hope
> >> to resolve this matter out-of-court.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
>
>
>

Phillip Windell
07-09-2005, 10:54 PM
In answer to the original question of

"Is there a way to determin if..."

The answer is no. There is no way to identify if "someone else" was in fact
"someone else" and not the "real person". That is because "humans" don't
access HotMail,...credentials do,...and there is only one set of credentials
can do that, so whoever would access with those "credentials" is no
different than anyone else accessing the mail with the same credentials.
There is no way to verify which individual human was physically typing in
the credentials. The closest you might come is showing that the IP# from
that company was the source IP# during the connection which would have been
after the emloyee was already fired and not there to be the one doing it.
But then Hotmail is not going to keep those kinds of records of the billions
and billions of connections happening.

Then the other comment made, "We can't be sure there was unauthorized
access" kinda makes the whole thing a waist of time.

--

Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com


"Bobby." <Bobby.@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E005F41E-E1D2-4BE8-B101-A2838AF5EC75@microsoft.com...
> All of this happened after he had left the employer. Even if the employer
> had such a policy, they wouldn't have the right to access the personal
email
> after termination.
>
> "Srikrishna Komatineni" wrote:
>
> > And more about the IT policy that person signed with his employer...If
he is
> > accessing at work place (and its forbidden via policy) the employer
might
> > have got the emails (proxy caching or etc) or if any key logger is
installed
> > he could have got it...
> > I have seen some incidents in my area here but most of the cases Hotmail
was
> > not willing to do anything..Ofcourse we need to understand their
limitations
> > as well..they cant just keep track on everything n provide it to the end
> > user where the service is free..
> > --------------------------
> > Srikrishna Komatineni
> >
> >
> >
> > "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:OFAssbfbFHA.3492@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > This is just about your only publicly-accessible option, Bobby:
> > >
> > > MSN Support - ContactUs Email Support:
> > >
http://support.msn.com/contactus_emailsupport.aspx?productkey=hotmail&ct=eformts
> > > --
> > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
> > >
> > > bobby. wrote:
> > >> I need some help.
> > >>
> > >> I have a case where my client is alleging wrongful termination by his
> > >> former employer. It seems that his former employer found a way to
access
> > >> his personal hotmail account, thus also accessing information
protected
> > >> by
> > >> attorney-client privilege.
> > >>
> > >> We can't be sure there was unauthorized access. Is there some way to
> > >> determine if the email was accessed by anyone other than my client?
> > >>
> > >> I'm hoping we can do this without a court order or lawsuit, since we
hope
> > >> to resolve this matter out-of-court.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >
> >
> >
> >

Bobby.
07-09-2005, 10:54 PM
That makes sense, not keeping that many records of IP#s I guess.

Also, I've talked to the managing attorney and we have a witness saying he
saw the employer (some managers) had accessed the Hotmail account because
after the employee was terminated, the witness saw print-outs of emails from
that Hotmail account.

We're hoping for more evidence of this. And an IP address would be it.

Is there any other way to find out if there was unauthorized access? I've
tried calling MS, but get no response from their legal department. I realize
trying to get help from them for some user of a free email service is
unlikely.

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

The closest you might come is showing that the IP# from
> that company was the source IP# during the connection which would have been
> after the emloyee was already fired and not there to be the one doing it.
> But then Hotmail is not going to keep those kinds of records of the billions
> and billions of connections happening.
>
> Then the other comment made, "We can't be sure there was unauthorized
> access" kinda makes the whole thing a waist of time.
>
> --
>
> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
> www.wandtv.com
>
>
> "Bobby." <Bobby.@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:E005F41E-E1D2-4BE8-B101-A2838AF5EC75@microsoft.com...
> > All of this happened after he had left the employer. Even if the employer
> > had such a policy, they wouldn't have the right to access the personal
> email
> > after termination.
> >
> > "Srikrishna Komatineni" wrote:
> >
> > > And more about the IT policy that person signed with his employer...If
> he is
> > > accessing at work place (and its forbidden via policy) the employer
> might
> > > have got the emails (proxy caching or etc) or if any key logger is
> installed
> > > he could have got it...
> > > I have seen some incidents in my area here but most of the cases Hotmail
> was
> > > not willing to do anything..Ofcourse we need to understand their
> limitations
> > > as well..they cant just keep track on everything n provide it to the end
> > > user where the service is free..
> > > --------------------------
> > > Srikrishna Komatineni
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:OFAssbfbFHA.3492@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > This is just about your only publicly-accessible option, Bobby:
> > > >
> > > > MSN Support - ContactUs Email Support:
> > > >
> http://support.msn.com/contactus_emailsupport.aspx?productkey=hotmail&ct=eformts
> > > > --
> > > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> > > > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
> > > >
> > > > bobby. wrote:
> > > >> I need some help.
> > > >>
> > > >> I have a case where my client is alleging wrongful termination by his
> > > >> former employer. It seems that his former employer found a way to
> access
> > > >> his personal hotmail account, thus also accessing information
> protected
> > > >> by
> > > >> attorney-client privilege.
> > > >>
> > > >> We can't be sure there was unauthorized access. Is there some way to
> > > >> determine if the email was accessed by anyone other than my client?
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm hoping we can do this without a court order or lawsuit, since we
> hope
> > > >> to resolve this matter out-of-court.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>

Phillip Windell
07-09-2005, 10:54 PM
"Bobby." <Bobby@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:052316A1-3F93-491A-A21C-B3B824C97C8A@microsoft.com...
> Also, I've talked to the managing attorney and we have a witness saying he
> saw the employer (some managers) had accessed the Hotmail account because
> after the employee was terminated, the witness saw print-outs of emails
from
> that Hotmail account.

You can't prove who printed them and you can't prove when they were printed.
The only thing you know is that they were printed sometime after the email
arrived.

> We're hoping for more evidence of this. And an IP address would be it.

An IP# would not be it.

> Is there any other way to find out if there was unauthorized access?

No.

If you are wanting to sue for wrongful termination, then that is what needs
pursuing,...not whether or not somebody read somebody's email.

--

Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com


unauthorized access into hotmail account