OT...Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006 Review...OT



John Inzer
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1829590,00.asp

--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP

Geoff Coupe
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
"John Inzer" <oobie@doobie.xyz> wrote in message
news:O555ohudFHA.892@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1829590,00.asp
>

The review doesn't make it clear whether Microsoft have finally added
support for IPTC into the library and editing tools. I fear the omission
from the review means that Microsoft still haven't seen the light.

- Geoff Coupe

John Inzer
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
"Geoff Coupe" wrote:
> The review doesn't make it clear whether Microsoft have finally added
> support for IPTC into the library and editing tools. I fear the omission
> from the review means that Microsoft still haven't seen the light.
=======================================
I received the following info from the Picture
It! team, maybe it will answer your question:

*****
We read Keyword, Author, and Title information from IPTC, but we do not
write back to IPTC. We only write back to EXIF for JPEG and TIFF. We
write to XML for PNG+. In any other cases where we can't write to
these, we write to the NTFS stream if it is available. We do not write
anything back to read-only files.

The EXIF data is written to EXIF fields that Windows creates for
writeback purposes. These fields are created because the EXIF standard
does not support Unicode. The only EXIF standard field we write back to
is Date Taken.

Windows already recognizes the metadata that Digital Image Library
writes to files, and will continue to support that. Metadata is a very
important issue to the operating system, and we are working to provide
users with a clear, consistent experience in that space.
*****

--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP

walt
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Do you know if Microsoft will be offering an "upgrade" price?

"John Inzer" wrote:

> Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1829590,00.asp
>
> --
>
> John Inzer
> MS Picture It! MVP
>
>
>
>

walt
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Did find this
http://emea.windowsitpro.com/EMEA/Article/ArticleID/46781/EMEA_46781.html

"John Inzer" wrote:

> Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1829590,00.asp
>
> --
>
> John Inzer
> MS Picture It! MVP
>
>
>
>

John Inzer
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Good find Walt....

I don't have any info on the rebates but
there are always some available. Also
watch the discounters like Costco, Sam's
Club, BJs...they usually have good prices.

--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP



"walt" <walt@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:76E85C7C-BD29-4373-8AFD-414E7D255FA0@microsoft.com...
> Did find this
> http://emea.windowsitpro.com/EMEA/Article/ArticleID/46781/EMEA_46781.html
>
> "John Inzer" wrote:
>
>> Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006
>> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1829590,00.asp
>>
>> --
>>
>> John Inzer
>> MS Picture It! MVP
>>
>>
>>
>>

Geoff Coupe
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
John,

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to consult with the Picture It!
team, but I'm afraid that their answer only serves to demonstrate to me how
they are at best: absolutely clueless, or at worst: disingenuous. Let me try
and demonstrate the ways by commenting on their info.

> We read Keyword, Author, and Title information from IPTC, but we do not
> write back to IPTC. We only write back to EXIF for JPEG and TIFF.

So they have just admitted that they will break any digital workflow process
that uses IPTC. And sure enough, their current DIS editor will actively
strip out any IPTC metadata from JPEG files that I am foolish enough to put
through it. The whole point about metadata is that it should be preserved
through a workflow process, not exterminated! Oh, and three fields (Keyword,
Author and Title), out of the whole of the IPTC-IIM standard is nothing to
be proud about.

> We write to XML for PNG+. In any other cases where we can't write to
> these, we write to the NTFS stream if it is available.

And whose schemas for the XML are being used? Are they Microsoft's? Are they
open? If they were serious about using XML as the basis for industry
standard metadata, then they would be adopting IPTC-XMP
(http://www.iptc.org/IPTC4XMP/ ) as the vehicle.

>We do not write anything back to read-only files.

I would be astounded had they said otherwise! This is rather in the nature
of a "Du-uh" response. :-)

> The EXIF data is written to EXIF fields that Windows creates for
> writeback purposes. These fields are created because the EXIF standard
> does not support Unicode. The only EXIF standard field we write back to
> is Date Taken.

> Windows already recognizes the metadata that Digital Image Library
> writes to files, and will continue to support that. Metadata is a very
> important issue to the operating system, and we are working to provide
> users with a clear, consistent experience in that space.

Hallo, this is metadata defined by Microsoft. I would expect them to support
it. However, it is not industry standard metadata - that position is held by
IPTC. If they really were working to provide users with a clear consistent
experience in that space, they would be publishing a statement of intent on
how they will be moving away from they internal proprietary metadata
standards into those that are more open. If the Office product group can do
it with the XML formats for the forthcoming version of Office, it should not
be outside the realm of possibility that the digital imaging products group
can do the same.

Sorry, John, this rant is not at you, I realise that you are only the
messenger in this case. But I really do get tired of this particular
Microsoft product group's obtuseness. They've just launched a new marketing
web site
(http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/default.mspx )
for digital photographers. That has a paper on "Achieving a Better Digital
Workflow"
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/workflow.mspx -
written by a non-Microsoft author. The paper even mentions the role of IPTC
as an international standard for metadata used by professional
photographers, image libraries and news organisations. The irony is that
throughout the paper, the author is referring to non-microsoft tools (like
Photo Mechanic and Adobe Photoshop) that will support the preservation and
editing of IPTC metadata. Microsoft's Digital Image Library and Digital
Image Suite gets a mention at the end of the paper, but the nasty little
secret - that they will break a workflow containing IPTC metadata is not
mentioned.

- Geoff Coupe
http://spaces.msn.com/members/gcoupe

John Inzer
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Needless to say...you are not satisfied
with the info I was able to provide.

I'll forward your reply to someone on the
Picture It! Team.

--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP



"Geoff Coupe" <gcoupe_removethis_@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:%23PzL259dFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> John,
>
> Thanks very much for taking the trouble to consult with the Picture It!
> team, but I'm afraid that their answer only serves to demonstrate to me
> how they are at best: absolutely clueless, or at worst: disingenuous. Let
> me try and demonstrate the ways by commenting on their info.
>
>> We read Keyword, Author, and Title information from IPTC, but we do not
>> write back to IPTC. We only write back to EXIF for JPEG and TIFF.
>
> So they have just admitted that they will break any digital workflow
> process that uses IPTC. And sure enough, their current DIS editor will
> actively strip out any IPTC metadata from JPEG files that I am foolish
> enough to put through it. The whole point about metadata is that it should
> be preserved through a workflow process, not exterminated! Oh, and three
> fields (Keyword, Author and Title), out of the whole of the IPTC-IIM
> standard is nothing to be proud about.
>
>> We write to XML for PNG+. In any other cases where we can't write to
>> these, we write to the NTFS stream if it is available.
>
> And whose schemas for the XML are being used? Are they Microsoft's? Are
> they open? If they were serious about using XML as the basis for industry
> standard metadata, then they would be adopting IPTC-XMP
> (http://www.iptc.org/IPTC4XMP/ ) as the vehicle.
>
>>We do not write anything back to read-only files.
>
> I would be astounded had they said otherwise! This is rather in the nature
> of a "Du-uh" response. :-)
>
>> The EXIF data is written to EXIF fields that Windows creates for
>> writeback purposes. These fields are created because the EXIF standard
>> does not support Unicode. The only EXIF standard field we write back to
>> is Date Taken.
>
>> Windows already recognizes the metadata that Digital Image Library
>> writes to files, and will continue to support that. Metadata is a very
>> important issue to the operating system, and we are working to provide
>> users with a clear, consistent experience in that space.
>
> Hallo, this is metadata defined by Microsoft. I would expect them to
> support it. However, it is not industry standard metadata - that position
> is held by IPTC. If they really were working to provide users with a clear
> consistent experience in that space, they would be publishing a statement
> of intent on how they will be moving away from they internal proprietary
> metadata standards into those that are more open. If the Office product
> group can do it with the XML formats for the forthcoming version of
> Office, it should not be outside the realm of possibility that the digital
> imaging products group can do the same.
>
> Sorry, John, this rant is not at you, I realise that you are only the
> messenger in this case. But I really do get tired of this particular
> Microsoft product group's obtuseness. They've just launched a new
> marketing web site
> (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/default.mspx
> ) for digital photographers. That has a paper on "Achieving a Better
> Digital Workflow"
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/workflow.mspx -
> written by a non-Microsoft author. The paper even mentions the role of
> IPTC as an international standard for metadata used by professional
> photographers, image libraries and news organisations. The irony is that
> throughout the paper, the author is referring to non-microsoft tools (like
> Photo Mechanic and Adobe Photoshop) that will support the preservation and
> editing of IPTC metadata. Microsoft's Digital Image Library and Digital
> Image Suite gets a mention at the end of the paper, but the nasty little
> secret - that they will break a workflow containing IPTC metadata is not
> mentioned.
>
> - Geoff Coupe
> http://spaces.msn.com/members/gcoupe
>
>
>

Geoff Coupe
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Thanks John, I do appreciate you taking the trouble to do this.

Cheers,

Geoff Coupe
http://spaces.msn.com/members/gcoupe

"John Inzer" <oobie@doobie.xyz> wrote in message
news:%23dEV8uBeFHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Needless to say...you are not satisfied
> with the info I was able to provide.
>
> I'll forward your reply to someone on the
> Picture It! Team.
>
> --
>
> John Inzer
> MS Picture It! MVP

John Inzer
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
No problem Geoff.

If I receive any additional info I'll
let you know.

--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP



"Geoff Coupe" <gcoupe_removethis_@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:%23lYPIDMeFHA.1612@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks John, I do appreciate you taking the trouble to do this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Geoff Coupe
> http://spaces.msn.com/members/gcoupe


OT...Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006 Review...OT