Freeware Ghost?



Peter Moreton
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
I have a client needing to deploy XP to about 7000 seats, and they (quite
rightly) ask if it is necessary to buy a Ghost client license for every
deployed seat.

I can see that it is potentially possible to create an XP image without
using Ghost, by perhaps createing a zipfile of the XP image, and perhaps
using diskpart to create the target partition, then unpack the zip file into
the partition, then write a bootblock.

Before I re-invent such a wheel, has anyone any other (probably smarter)
ideas?

Thanks, Peter Moreton

Carey Frisch [MVP]
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
Microsoft does not support the use of OEM media with sysprep.
If you wish to use sysprep, you should be using volume licensing.
Otherwise, you'll have to activate each installation by phone.

Support WebCast: Microsoft Windows XP: Deployment Methods
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;3248­74

Summary of the limitations of the System Preparation tool
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;830958

Unsupported Sysprep scenarios
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828287

Updated System Preparation tool for Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];838080

Windows XP Service Pack 2 Deployment Tools
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3e90dc91-ac56-4665-949b-beda3080e0f6&displaylang=en

The Microsoft Policy Concerning Disk Duplication of Windows XP Installations
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314828&Product=winxp

Sysprep uses a mass storage section to allow you to specify the mass storage
drivers that you want installed. It also allows you to use different mass storage
devices for different systems. So you can possibly use the same image for machines
that have mass storage drivers. You won't have to re-create the images so many times.
You do have to make sure that the OemPreinstall=Yes is set in the [Unattended]
section of the Unattend file, or else the drivers for the mass storage device aren't
going to be properly recognized during setup.

Ref: http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=http://support.microsoft.com%2Fservicedesks%2Fwebcasts%2Fen%2Fwc021502%2Fwct021502.asp

How to Acquire Microsoft Product Licenses Through Microsoft's Volume Licensing Programs
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/howtoacquire.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Peter Moreton" wrote:

| I have a client needing to deploy XP to about 7000 seats, and they (quite
| rightly) ask if it is necessary to buy a Ghost client license for every
| deployed seat.
|
| I can see that it is potentially possible to create an XP image without
| using Ghost, by perhaps createing a zipfile of the XP image, and perhaps
| using diskpart to create the target partition, then unpack the zip file into
| the partition, then write a bootblock.
|
| Before I re-invent such a wheel, has anyone any other (probably smarter)
| ideas?
|
| Thanks, Peter Moreton



---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
Tested on: 5/12/2005 10:57:45 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Peter Moreton
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
Of course, the customer has a volume licensing agreement, and MVL media. I'm
just looking for a way to image it, without paying Symantec for Ghost. I know
that in am SMS world, I could use the WIM windows imaging tool, but I cannot
deploy SMS in this context.


"Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote:

> Microsoft does not support the use of OEM media with sysprep.
> If you wish to use sysprep, you should be using volume licensing.
> Otherwise, you'll have to activate each installation by phone.
>
> Support WebCast: Microsoft Windows XP: Deployment Methods
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;3248­74
>
> Summary of the limitations of the System Preparation tool
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;830958
>
> Unsupported Sysprep scenarios
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828287
>
> Updated System Preparation tool for Windows XP Service Pack 2
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];838080
>
> Windows XP Service Pack 2 Deployment Tools
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3e90dc91-ac56-4665-949b-beda3080e0f6&displaylang=en
>
> The Microsoft Policy Concerning Disk Duplication of Windows XP Installations
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314828&Product=winxp
>
> Sysprep uses a mass storage section to allow you to specify the mass storage
> drivers that you want installed. It also allows you to use different mass storage
> devices for different systems. So you can possibly use the same image for machines
> that have mass storage drivers. You won't have to re-create the images so many times.
> You do have to make sure that the OemPreinstall=Yes is set in the [Unattended]
> section of the Unattend file, or else the drivers for the mass storage device aren't
> going to be properly recognized during setup.
>
> Ref: http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=http://support.microsoft.com%2Fservicedesks%2Fwebcasts%2Fen%2Fwc021502%2Fwct021502.asp
>
> How to Acquire Microsoft Product Licenses Through Microsoft's Volume Licensing Programs
> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/howtoacquire.mspx
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Peter Moreton" wrote:
>
> | I have a client needing to deploy XP to about 7000 seats, and they (quite
> | rightly) ask if it is necessary to buy a Ghost client license for every
> | deployed seat.
> |
> | I can see that it is potentially possible to create an XP image without
> | using Ghost, by perhaps createing a zipfile of the XP image, and perhaps
> | using diskpart to create the target partition, then unpack the zip file into
> | the partition, then write a bootblock.
> |
> | Before I re-invent such a wheel, has anyone any other (probably smarter)
> | ideas?
> |
> | Thanks, Peter Moreton
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
> Tested on: 5/12/2005 10:57:45 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>

Carey Frisch [MVP]
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
Deploying Windows XP Professional
http://labmice.techtarget.com/windowsxp/Install/deploy.htm

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Peter Moreton" wrote:

| Of course, the customer has a volume licensing agreement, and MVL media. I'm
| just looking for a way to image it, without paying Symantec for Ghost. I know
| that in am SMS world, I could use the WIM windows imaging tool, but I cannot
| deploy SMS in this context.



---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
Tested on: 5/12/2005 1:31:10 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Oli Restorick [MVP]
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
The following "Ultimate Boot CD" page lists four free hard disk imaging
tools. Hopefully one of those will fit your needs.

http://ubcd.sourceforge.net/

Regards

Oli


"Peter Moreton" <PeterMoreton@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:194D8A31-D8DA-4247-905C-BB22886316E5@microsoft.com...
> Of course, the customer has a volume licensing agreement, and MVL media.
> I'm
> just looking for a way to image it, without paying Symantec for Ghost. I
> know
> that in am SMS world, I could use the WIM windows imaging tool, but I
> cannot
> deploy SMS in this context.
>
>
> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Microsoft does not support the use of OEM media with sysprep.
>> If you wish to use sysprep, you should be using volume licensing.
>> Otherwise, you'll have to activate each installation by phone.
>>
>> Support WebCast: Microsoft Windows XP: Deployment Methods
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;324874
>>
>> Summary of the limitations of the System Preparation tool
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;830958
>>
>> Unsupported Sysprep scenarios
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828287
>>
>> Updated System Preparation tool for Windows XP Service Pack 2
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];838080
>>
>> Windows XP Service Pack 2 Deployment Tools
>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3e90dc91-ac56-4665-949b-beda3080e0f6&displaylang=en
>>
>> The Microsoft Policy Concerning Disk Duplication of Windows XP
>> Installations
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314828&Product=winxp
>>
>> Sysprep uses a mass storage section to allow you to specify the mass
>> storage
>> drivers that you want installed. It also allows you to use different mass
>> storage
>> devices for different systems. So you can possibly use the same image for
>> machines
>> that have mass storage drivers. You won't have to re-create the images so
>> many times.
>> You do have to make sure that the OemPreinstall=Yes is set in the
>> [Unattended]
>> section of the Unattend file, or else the drivers for the mass storage
>> device aren't
>> going to be properly recognized during setup.
>>
>> Ref:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=http://support.microsoft.com%2Fservicedesks%2Fwebcasts%2Fen%2Fwc021502%2Fwct021502.asp
>>
>> How to Acquire Microsoft Product Licenses Through Microsoft's Volume
>> Licensing Programs
>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/howtoacquire.mspx
>>
>> --
>> Carey Frisch
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows XP - Shell/User
>> Microsoft Newsgroups
>>
>> Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Peter Moreton" wrote:
>>
>> | I have a client needing to deploy XP to about 7000 seats, and they
>> (quite
>> | rightly) ask if it is necessary to buy a Ghost client license for every
>> | deployed seat.
>> |
>> | I can see that it is potentially possible to create an XP image without
>> | using Ghost, by perhaps createing a zipfile of the XP image, and
>> perhaps
>> | using diskpart to create the target partition, then unpack the zip file
>> into
>> | the partition, then write a bootblock.
>> |
>> | Before I re-invent such a wheel, has anyone any other (probably
>> smarter)
>> | ideas?
>> |
>> | Thanks, Peter Moreton
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
>> Tested on: 5/12/2005 10:57:45 AM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>>

Peter Moreton
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
OK, I have found the tools I need, and that appear to work. I'd like the
groups view on this approach:.....

Firstly, WinPE DISKPART appears to create more than just partitions; it does
the MBR and partition boot sector also, so no need to worry about copying
these away using DISKPROBE etc.

DISKPART will take a 'clean' disk, and create the partition and boot
structures that are needed, so all I have to do is image away the SYSPREP'd
XP image, and restore it from a WinPE environment.

The only truly freeware tool I found to create archives is 7ZIP. So, I used
7ZIP to create an image file, XPSP2.7Z, and used Symantec Ghost v8.0 to
create XPSP2.GHO from the same source.

The commands used to create the 7ZIP image are:

C:
CD \
7ZA a -bd -mx1 J:\XPSP2.7Z -xr!hiberfil.sys -xr!pagefile.sys

and to restore:

C:
CD \
7ZA x -y J:\XPSP2.7Z

7ZA.EXE must be on the WinPE source, J: refers to a network share mapped by
WinPE. v4.18 of 7ZIP was used.

The results were:

Ghost Image create: Time 9m2s image size 2.04G
Ghost image restore: Time 5m53s

7ZIP image create: Time 38m image size 1.5G
7ZIP image restore: Time 8m 17s

So, it appears that WINPE/DISKPART/7ZIP is a viable alternative to Ghost....
can anyone spot any flaw in this approach? - thanks.

Peter Moreton
peter dot moreton at virgin dot net

Michael Niehaus [MS]
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
Just be sure that 7ZIP captures the security information as well, otherwise
you'll have a completely insecure OS inheriting the permissions that FORMAT
put at the root of the C: drive.

Also, make sure to use the DISKPART "clean" command when you start, as this
is what causes the MBR and boot sector to be put in place.

-Michael Niehaus
Senior Consultant
MCS US Centers of Excellence - Deployment AOS
mniehaus@microsoft.com
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


"Peter Moreton" <PeterMoreton@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F36FF759-136C-43DB-884F-CD6F0D3DDC54@microsoft.com...
> OK, I have found the tools I need, and that appear to work. I'd like the
> groups view on this approach:.....
>
> Firstly, WinPE DISKPART appears to create more than just partitions; it
> does
> the MBR and partition boot sector also, so no need to worry about copying
> these away using DISKPROBE etc.
>
> DISKPART will take a 'clean' disk, and create the partition and boot
> structures that are needed, so all I have to do is image away the
> SYSPREP'd
> XP image, and restore it from a WinPE environment.
>
> The only truly freeware tool I found to create archives is 7ZIP. So, I
> used
> 7ZIP to create an image file, XPSP2.7Z, and used Symantec Ghost v8.0 to
> create XPSP2.GHO from the same source.
>
> The commands used to create the 7ZIP image are:
>
> C:
> CD \
> 7ZA a -bd -mx1 J:\XPSP2.7Z -xr!hiberfil.sys -xr!pagefile.sys
>
> and to restore:
>
> C:
> CD \
> 7ZA x -y J:\XPSP2.7Z
>
> 7ZA.EXE must be on the WinPE source, J: refers to a network share mapped
> by
> WinPE. v4.18 of 7ZIP was used.
>
> The results were:
>
> Ghost Image create: Time 9m2s image size 2.04G
> Ghost image restore: Time 5m53s
>
> 7ZIP image create: Time 38m image size 1.5G
> 7ZIP image restore: Time 8m 17s
>
> So, it appears that WINPE/DISKPART/7ZIP is a viable alternative to
> Ghost....
> can anyone spot any flaw in this approach? - thanks.
>
> Peter Moreton
> peter dot moreton at virgin dot net
>
>

Peter Moreton
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
I'll have to check into the NTFS permissions issue, I don't know for certain
that 7ZIP preserves these, I'll check.

Re DISKPART CLEAN, I presume the clean command creates the MBR, but surely
the partition boot sector would not be created until a partition itself is
created?

Thanks, Peter Moreton


"Michael Niehaus [MS]" wrote:

> Just be sure that 7ZIP captures the security information as well, otherwise
> you'll have a completely insecure OS inheriting the permissions that FORMAT
> put at the root of the C: drive.
>
> Also, make sure to use the DISKPART "clean" command when you start, as this
> is what causes the MBR and boot sector to be put in place.
>
> -Michael Niehaus
> Senior Consultant
> MCS US Centers of Excellence - Deployment AOS
> mniehaus@microsoft.com
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
> "Peter Moreton" <PeterMoreton@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F36FF759-136C-43DB-884F-CD6F0D3DDC54@microsoft.com...
> > OK, I have found the tools I need, and that appear to work. I'd like the
> > groups view on this approach:.....
> >
> > Firstly, WinPE DISKPART appears to create more than just partitions; it
> > does
> > the MBR and partition boot sector also, so no need to worry about copying
> > these away using DISKPROBE etc.
> >
> > DISKPART will take a 'clean' disk, and create the partition and boot
> > structures that are needed, so all I have to do is image away the
> > SYSPREP'd
> > XP image, and restore it from a WinPE environment.
> >
> > The only truly freeware tool I found to create archives is 7ZIP. So, I
> > used
> > 7ZIP to create an image file, XPSP2.7Z, and used Symantec Ghost v8.0 to
> > create XPSP2.GHO from the same source.
> >
> > The commands used to create the 7ZIP image are:
> >
> > C:
> > CD \
> > 7ZA a -bd -mx1 J:\XPSP2.7Z -xr!hiberfil.sys -xr!pagefile.sys
> >
> > and to restore:
> >
> > C:
> > CD \
> > 7ZA x -y J:\XPSP2.7Z
> >
> > 7ZA.EXE must be on the WinPE source, J: refers to a network share mapped
> > by
> > WinPE. v4.18 of 7ZIP was used.
> >
> > The results were:
> >
> > Ghost Image create: Time 9m2s image size 2.04G
> > Ghost image restore: Time 5m53s
> >
> > 7ZIP image create: Time 38m image size 1.5G
> > 7ZIP image restore: Time 8m 17s
> >
> > So, it appears that WINPE/DISKPART/7ZIP is a viable alternative to
> > Ghost....
> > can anyone spot any flaw in this approach? - thanks.
> >
> > Peter Moreton
> > peter dot moreton at virgin dot net
> >
> >
>
>
>

Peter Moreton
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
OK, I found that 7ZIP does not preserve file security info. dang!

Any ideas how to fix this, a SETACLS script perhaps? - maybe something
already exists?

Peter Moreton

"Michael Niehaus [MS]" wrote:

> Just be sure that 7ZIP captures the security information as well, otherwise
> you'll have a completely insecure OS inheriting the permissions that FORMAT
> put at the root of the C: drive.
>
> Also, make sure to use the DISKPART "clean" command when you start, as this
> is what causes the MBR and boot sector to be put in place.
>
> -Michael Niehaus
> Senior Consultant
> MCS US Centers of Excellence - Deployment AOS
> mniehaus@microsoft.com
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
> "Peter Moreton" <PeterMoreton@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F36FF759-136C-43DB-884F-CD6F0D3DDC54@microsoft.com...
> > OK, I have found the tools I need, and that appear to work. I'd like the
> > groups view on this approach:.....
> >
> > Firstly, WinPE DISKPART appears to create more than just partitions; it
> > does
> > the MBR and partition boot sector also, so no need to worry about copying
> > these away using DISKPROBE etc.
> >
> > DISKPART will take a 'clean' disk, and create the partition and boot
> > structures that are needed, so all I have to do is image away the
> > SYSPREP'd
> > XP image, and restore it from a WinPE environment.
> >
> > The only truly freeware tool I found to create archives is 7ZIP. So, I
> > used
> > 7ZIP to create an image file, XPSP2.7Z, and used Symantec Ghost v8.0 to
> > create XPSP2.GHO from the same source.
> >
> > The commands used to create the 7ZIP image are:
> >
> > C:
> > CD \
> > 7ZA a -bd -mx1 J:\XPSP2.7Z -xr!hiberfil.sys -xr!pagefile.sys
> >
> > and to restore:
> >
> > C:
> > CD \
> > 7ZA x -y J:\XPSP2.7Z
> >
> > 7ZA.EXE must be on the WinPE source, J: refers to a network share mapped
> > by
> > WinPE. v4.18 of 7ZIP was used.
> >
> > The results were:
> >
> > Ghost Image create: Time 9m2s image size 2.04G
> > Ghost image restore: Time 5m53s
> >
> > 7ZIP image create: Time 38m image size 1.5G
> > 7ZIP image restore: Time 8m 17s
> >
> > So, it appears that WINPE/DISKPART/7ZIP is a viable alternative to
> > Ghost....
> > can anyone spot any flaw in this approach? - thanks.
> >
> > Peter Moreton
> > peter dot moreton at virgin dot net
> >
> >
>
>
>

Claude Henchoz
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
Hi Peter

While not exactly free, I have done what you are doing using WinRAR.
With WinRAR, you'd need one licensed copy to create the archive, but
can then use the freeware unrar.exe to restore under Windows PE.

What I do to 'capture the image' under Windows PE:
p:\pathto\rar.exe a -m5 -os -ow -r -v300000k p:\myimage.rar c:\*.*

What this does: Invoke rar.exe from a mapped network drive (p:) to
create an 'image' (p:\myimage.rar) from all the files in c:\ including
anything under that. Moreover, it uses the following few parameters:
-m5: maximal compression
-os: save ntfs streams
-ow: save permissions
-r: recurse subdirectories
-v300000k: create chunks of 300MB

Works like a charm.

Cheers, Claude

PS: Why don't you just schedule something during GuiRunOnce that
applies a security template?

Claude Henchoz
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
More than that, when I restore that stuff, I first do a diskpart clean,
then use diskpart to create a partition and then restore the stuff from
the rar images.

Peter Moreton
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
Hi Claude, thanks for the WinRAR advice, it sounds like a perfect solution.
I'll try this out over the weekend, and post some performance results.

thanks again

Peter Moreton


"Claude Henchoz" wrote:

> Hi Peter
>
> While not exactly free, I have done what you are doing using WinRAR.
> With WinRAR, you'd need one licensed copy to create the archive, but
> can then use the freeware unrar.exe to restore under Windows PE.
>
> What I do to 'capture the image' under Windows PE:
> p:\pathto\rar.exe a -m5 -os -ow -r -v300000k p:\myimage.rar c:\*.*
>
> What this does: Invoke rar.exe from a mapped network drive (p:) to
> create an 'image' (p:\myimage.rar) from all the files in c:\ including
> anything under that. Moreover, it uses the following few parameters:
> -m5: maximal compression
> -os: save ntfs streams
> -ow: save permissions
> -r: recurse subdirectories
> -v300000k: create chunks of 300MB
>
> Works like a charm.
>
> Cheers, Claude
>
> PS: Why don't you just schedule something during GuiRunOnce that
> applies a security template?
>
>

Mats
07-10-2005, 02:16 AM
Take a look at dd for windows. DD is a Unix DiskDupexing tool that will work
att block level. Therefore it will handle any filesystem, the con is that it
will take at least the entire partition
http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/rawwrite/dd.htm
"Peter Moreton" <PeterMoreton@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7AED3712-9B27-4624-A520-D2DB27B6F37C@microsoft.com...
> Hi Claude, thanks for the WinRAR advice, it sounds like a perfect
solution.
> I'll try this out over the weekend, and post some performance results.
>
> thanks again
>
> Peter Moreton
>
>
> "Claude Henchoz" wrote:
>
> > Hi Peter
> >
> > While not exactly free, I have done what you are doing using WinRAR.
> > With WinRAR, you'd need one licensed copy to create the archive, but
> > can then use the freeware unrar.exe to restore under Windows PE.
> >
> > What I do to 'capture the image' under Windows PE:
> > p:\pathto\rar.exe a -m5 -os -ow -r -v300000k p:\myimage.rar c:\*.*
> >
> > What this does: Invoke rar.exe from a mapped network drive (p:) to
> > create an 'image' (p:\myimage.rar) from all the files in c:\ including
> > anything under that. Moreover, it uses the following few parameters:
> > -m5: maximal compression
> > -os: save ntfs streams
> > -ow: save permissions
> > -r: recurse subdirectories
> > -v300000k: create chunks of 300MB
> >
> > Works like a charm.
> >
> > Cheers, Claude
> >
> > PS: Why don't you just schedule something during GuiRunOnce that
> > applies a security template?
> >
> >


Freeware Ghost?