Frequent timeouts, Internet connectivity problem



speeder
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
I am getting frequent (but not consistent) timeouts when accessing the
Internet. This is one of those hard to troubleshoot problems so bear
with me as I explain what happens and what I tried (with no success)
to solve it.

Timeouts are apparent in the following way:
=====================================

=> Web Browsing
Sites will timeout and not load anything. Usually if I click again it
immediately loads. It can also take very long to "get going" but not
timeout. Sites have good ping values and no packet loss. It is not
related to any site in particular, it could affect anyone. I believe
there is some problem in the initial negotiation.

=> Media Streaming
I can tune in and hear music for a while but then it stops. Winamp can
report either "Timed Out" or "Error to Sync MPEG" or no message. If I
try again it usually starts but sometimes only after several attempts.

=> E-mail
Usually very reliable but today I got an error message with the
following:
-----------
Delivery has failed on the enclosed message for the following
reasons reported either by the mail delivery system on the mail
relay host or by the local TCP/IP transport module:

*** TCP/IP error while processing job ***
A network error has occurred while WinPMail attempted to send
your message. This error could be caused by many conditions,
including the following:
* The remote host may have gone down.
* Your network may have been broken or gone down.
* You may have a configuration problem in your WINSOCK.DLL.
* If running on a SLIP line, you may have experienced a
timeout (increase the value in WinPMail's Network Config.
Dialog), or the phone line may have gone down or suffered
from excessive line noise.
-----------

=> Automatic updates
Firefox updates can break in the middle of downloading. Loading of
extensions can also be problematic and not load.


This is what I have done so far to troubleshoot:
=====================================
Checked websites and streaming servers for ping values and packet loss
(over a 12 hour period at 2 minute intervals). Values are good.

Complained with my ISP for connectivity issues. Check was done by ISP
and no problems were detected.

Tweaked RWIN value from my default of 65535 to 17520. Timeout messages
are quicker :-). This was done in line with Broadband Reports
suggestions (http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks/RWIN). My average
"large" ping latency is 245 ms. Pings across the globe to me (Tokyo
University) is 348 ms.

Took router and software firewall out of the way.

Reset the TCP/IP stack with NetShell utility according to
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;299357

None of these produced visible change, connectivity issues still
persist particularly with web browsing and media streaming.


This is where I am coming from:
=====================================
This is a fresh install (only a couple days old) from a CD-ROM with
SP1. Automatic updates occurred without incidents to SP2. Before this
reinstall, everything was working really fine and smooth with the same
system and all the applications described above. A full reformat was
needed due to a trojan infection. *Extensive* scanning and monitoring
reveals previous signs are gone.


This is my setup:
=====================================
WinXP SP2 fully patched
Broadband connection (600kbps up and down)
AMD 3200+, 512MB RAM, 60GB *free* space atm

I donīt know what else to do or where to look. I still suspect some
problem with Windows TCP/IP but apart from the reset I donīt know what
else can be tried. Please help with ideas or fixes.

tks

GTS
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
That's a thorough job of testing and great summary. I don't have an answer
but two thoughts come to mind. The initial symptom you describe under Web
Browsing sometimes indicates poor DNS response though the other items don't
tend that way. A hardware or driver problem with the NIC seems like one
possibility. I wouldn't completely rule out the broadband modem either
despite the ISP check. I suspect you've done this, but powering it off for
a few minutes is sometimes useful.
(I would ordinarily also suspect a possible parasite interrupting the
connection, but it sounds like you've ruled that out.)
--

"speeder" <no.spam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:fo1k81d7962ovf05hjp8i857un3ukosf5k@4ax.com...
>I am getting frequent (but not consistent) timeouts when accessing the
> Internet. This is one of those hard to troubleshoot problems so bear
> with me as I explain what happens and what I tried (with no success)
> to solve it.
>
> Timeouts are apparent in the following way:
> =====================================
>
> => Web Browsing
> Sites will timeout and not load anything. Usually if I click again it
> immediately loads. It can also take very long to "get going" but not
> timeout. Sites have good ping values and no packet loss. It is not
> related to any site in particular, it could affect anyone. I believe
> there is some problem in the initial negotiation.
>
> => Media Streaming
> I can tune in and hear music for a while but then it stops. Winamp can
> report either "Timed Out" or "Error to Sync MPEG" or no message. If I
> try again it usually starts but sometimes only after several attempts.
>
> => E-mail
> Usually very reliable but today I got an error message with the
> following:
> -----------
> Delivery has failed on the enclosed message for the following
> reasons reported either by the mail delivery system on the mail
> relay host or by the local TCP/IP transport module:
>
> *** TCP/IP error while processing job ***
> A network error has occurred while WinPMail attempted to send
> your message. This error could be caused by many conditions,
> including the following:
> * The remote host may have gone down.
> * Your network may have been broken or gone down.
> * You may have a configuration problem in your WINSOCK.DLL.
> * If running on a SLIP line, you may have experienced a
> timeout (increase the value in WinPMail's Network Config.
> Dialog), or the phone line may have gone down or suffered
> from excessive line noise.
> -----------
>
> => Automatic updates
> Firefox updates can break in the middle of downloading. Loading of
> extensions can also be problematic and not load.
>
>
> This is what I have done so far to troubleshoot:
> =====================================
> Checked websites and streaming servers for ping values and packet loss
> (over a 12 hour period at 2 minute intervals). Values are good.
>
> Complained with my ISP for connectivity issues. Check was done by ISP
> and no problems were detected.
>
> Tweaked RWIN value from my default of 65535 to 17520. Timeout messages
> are quicker :-). This was done in line with Broadband Reports
> suggestions (http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks/RWIN). My average
> "large" ping latency is 245 ms. Pings across the globe to me (Tokyo
> University) is 348 ms.
>
> Took router and software firewall out of the way.
>
> Reset the TCP/IP stack with NetShell utility according to
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;299357
>
> None of these produced visible change, connectivity issues still
> persist particularly with web browsing and media streaming.
>
>
> This is where I am coming from:
> =====================================
> This is a fresh install (only a couple days old) from a CD-ROM with
> SP1. Automatic updates occurred without incidents to SP2. Before this
> reinstall, everything was working really fine and smooth with the same
> system and all the applications described above. A full reformat was
> needed due to a trojan infection. *Extensive* scanning and monitoring
> reveals previous signs are gone.
>
>
> This is my setup:
> =====================================
> WinXP SP2 fully patched
> Broadband connection (600kbps up and down)
> AMD 3200+, 512MB RAM, 60GB *free* space atm
>
> I donīt know what else to do or where to look. I still suspect some
> problem with Windows TCP/IP but apart from the reset I donīt know what
> else can be tried. Please help with ideas or fixes.
>
> tks

speeder
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
On Tue, 17 May 2005 13:23:10 -0400, "GTS" <x> wrote:

>That's a thorough job of testing and great summary. I don't have an answer
>but two thoughts come to mind. The initial symptom you describe under Web
>Browsing sometimes indicates poor DNS response though the other items don't
>tend that way. A hardware or driver problem with the NIC seems like one
>possibility. I wouldn't completely rule out the broadband modem either
>despite the ISP check. I suspect you've done this, but powering it off for
>a few minutes is sometimes useful.
>(I would ordinarily also suspect a possible parasite interrupting the
>connection, but it sounds like you've ruled that out.)

Those were good tips, thanks. Specially since it identified the
problem! The reinstallation of the NIC driver was the starting point.

The problem wasnīt in the NIC driver itself but on the QoS services
that are attached to the NIC driver. When I was reconfiguring the
Network connection (I turn off Client for MS Networks and File/Printer
Sharing) at one point I turned off the QoS packet scheduler driver and
timeouts were gone.

I then installed a bandwidth shaping program that I had successfully
used before the full format. It has itīs own QoS driver and will
install it to the NIC. Timeouts reappeared. Ok, QoS services of any
kind are upsetting my connections.

I think there might be something underlying QoS services, it is too
much coincidence that a Microsoft QoS driver and a third-party QoS
driver both cause the same ill effect. I could drop the problem now
and just not use QoS but I need that shaping program. And if left
unfixed, these things have a cruel way of resurfing in even more
mysterious ways.

Where can I get info on QoS driver of WinXP and what components it
uses?

thanks for keeping up with me, this was a tough one!

GTS
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
"speeder" <no.spam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:etcm815vdhhf1ugf2l7p6h621j8gk775qb@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 13:23:10 -0400, "GTS" <x> wrote:
>
<SNIP>
>
> Those were good tips, thanks. Specially since it identified the
> problem! The reinstallation of the NIC driver was the starting point.
>
> The problem wasnīt in the NIC driver itself but on the QoS services
> that are attached to the NIC driver. When I was reconfiguring the
> Network connection (I turn off Client for MS Networks and File/Printer
> Sharing) at one point I turned off the QoS packet scheduler driver and
> timeouts were gone.
>
> I then installed a bandwidth shaping program that I had successfully
> used before the full format. It has itīs own QoS driver and will
> install it to the NIC. Timeouts reappeared. Ok, QoS services of any
> kind are upsetting my connections.
>
> I think there might be something underlying QoS services, it is too
> much coincidence that a Microsoft QoS driver and a third-party QoS
> driver both cause the same ill effect. I could drop the problem now
> and just not use QoS but I need that shaping program. And if left
> unfixed, these things have a cruel way of resurfing in even more
> mysterious ways.
>
> Where can I get info on QoS driver of WinXP and what components it
> uses?
>
> thanks for keeping up with me, this was a tough one!

You're welcome. That's an interesting turn of events.

See The Microsoft QoS Components at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/howitworks/communications/trafficmgmt/qoscomp.asp
for a downloadable white paper.

Some other links that have QOS information are
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/technologies/communications/default.asp#section4

There are quite a few articles about QOS in the KB.
Search at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];kbhowto on
QOS and QOS XP

I'm surprised that the MS QOS driver alone causes a problem. What kind of
Internet connection and equipment are you using? I've run into a couple of
unusual network problems vaguely like these where an MTU adjustment was
helpful though it's a long shot.

speeder
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:36:19 -0400, "GTS" <x> wrote:

<big snip>

>I'm surprised that the MS QOS driver alone causes a problem. What kind of
>Internet connection and equipment are you using? I've run into a couple of
>unusual network problems vaguely like these where an MTU adjustment was
>helpful though it's a long shot.

This is my setup:
=====================================
WinXP SP2 fully patched
Broadband connection (600kbps up and down)
AMD 3200+, 512MB RAM, 60GB *free* space atm

The cable modem is a Motorola SurfBoard, and I have a Linksys router.

I was running this same rig perfectly before, so I donīt suspect the
hardware. I believe something soft broke during the many installations
of apps I had to do. I had some problems getting the NIC drivers from
the motherboard manufacturer installed (Windows would insist in using
itīs own) for example. If I ask for a driver update now, it says i got
the latest. So why wouldnīt it accept the driver from the mb
manufacturer in the first place?

My reference is the situation I had before the full reinstall. No
fancy tweaking, just standard installs and blissful silky performance.
If I can find the area that broke Iīm betting a reinstall will solve
it. Thatīs why I think the QoS driver is not the problem either but
only the tip of the iceberg.

Iīll read up on the references you kindly provided and investigate
some more. I hope Iīm on the right track...

thanks

GTS
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
> This is my setup:
> =====================================
> WinXP SP2 fully patched
> Broadband connection (600kbps up and down)
> AMD 3200+, 512MB RAM, 60GB *free* space atm
>
> The cable modem is a Motorola SurfBoard, and I have a Linksys router.
>
> I was running this same rig perfectly before, so I donīt suspect the
> hardware. I believe something soft broke during the many installations
> of apps I had to do. I had some problems getting the NIC drivers from
> the motherboard manufacturer installed (Windows would insist in using
> itīs own) for example. If I ask for a driver update now, it says i got
> the latest. So why wouldnīt it accept the driver from the mb
> manufacturer in the first place?
>
> My reference is the situation I had before the full reinstall. No
> fancy tweaking, just standard installs and blissful silky performance.
> If I can find the area that broke Iīm betting a reinstall will solve
> it. Thatīs why I think the QoS driver is not the problem either but
> only the tip of the iceberg.
>
> Iīll read up on the references you kindly provided and investigate
> some more. I hope Iīm on the right track...
>
> thanks

Good luck!


Frequent timeouts, Internet connectivity problem