Need help networking XP with Win98 and Win2000



spazminator
07-10-2005, 02:51 AM
I have a small home network with three computers connected to a router which
is connected to internet via a DSL modem. All using ethernet. No wireless. No
USB.

I had a file sharing almost working between the XP and the Win98 machines,
but only when sitting at the XP machine. I added a Win2000 laptop to the
network and went back to the XP to look for it. No dice. Ran network setup
wizard on the XP, but that only messed up what little file sharing I had
working already. Worse, the netsetup disk won't work on Win2000.

I am pretty disgusted with how hard it is to set up what should be a simple
network. How do I get this working?
--
lostinamazeoftwistyturnypassagesallthesame

Chuck
07-10-2005, 02:51 AM
On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:17:05 -0700, "spazminator"
<spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I have a small home network with three computers connected to a router which
>is connected to internet via a DSL modem. All using ethernet. No wireless. No
>USB.
>
>I had a file sharing almost working between the XP and the Win98 machines,
>but only when sitting at the XP machine. I added a Win2000 laptop to the
>network and went back to the XP to look for it. No dice. Ran network setup
>wizard on the XP, but that only messed up what little file sharing I had
>working already. Worse, the netsetup disk won't work on Win2000.
>
>I am pretty disgusted with how hard it is to set up what should be a simple
>network. How do I get this working?

Check for a browser conflict between the WinXP/2K computers and the Win98
computers. I"m not talking about Internet Explorer here. The browser is the
program that allows any computer to see any other computer on the LAN. The
browsers for WinXP (WinNT/2K/XP) and Win98 (Win95/98/ME) don't work well
together on the same LAN.

Make sure the browser service is running on the WinXP/2K computers. Control
Panel - Administrative Tools - Services. Verify that the Computer Browser, and
the TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, services both show with Status = Started. Disable
the browser on the Win98 computers:
http://cms.simons-rock.edu/faq_by_subtopic/node138.html
http://www.compudentsystems.com/documentation/win98.html

After checking / disabling / enabling as above, power all computers off to reset
the browser settings on each. Once ALL computers have been powered off, power
them back on.

The browser is a very common cause of problems like yours.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>

The Microsoft Browstat program will show us what browsers (I'm not talking about
Internet Explorer here) you have in your domain / workgroup, at any time.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305

You can download Browstat from either:
<http://www.dynawell.com/reskit/microsoft/win2000/browstat.zip>
<http://rescomp.stanford.edu/staff/manual/rcc/tools/browstat.zip>

Browstat is very small (40K), and needs no install. Just unzip the downloaded
file, copy browstat.exe to any folder in the Path, and run it from a command
window, by "browstat status", from the XP and the 2K computer. Make sure all
computers list the same master browser.

For more information about the browser subsystem (very intricate), see:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188001
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=231312
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q102878/
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w95brows.mspx>

--
Cheers,
Chuck
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it comes from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

spazminator
07-10-2005, 02:51 AM
Chuck,
Thanks for the reply, I think you're on the right track but my problems go
a little deeper. The Win2000 machine is actually a laptop from work which
expects to find the "work" domain, and Browstat indicates it is started on
that machine on the "work" domain. I think that must be the thing causing the
XP machine to stop its browser - even if I manually start it, it immediatly
stops because of "no work to do".
If I let the Win2000 machine be the master browser, is there some way to
add the MSHOME domain to it's site list? I've had it go as far as finding the
MSHOME in the Network Connections, and even the other machine names, but it
never would open any further than that. (I got that far by switching the
network from domain="work" to workgroup=MSHOME). Right now, however, it can't
see anything but "work", because I really need the "work" part operational.
--
lostinamazeoftwistyturnypassagesallthesame


"Chuck" wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:17:05 -0700, "spazminator"
> <spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >I have a small home network with three computers connected to a router which
> >is connected to internet via a DSL modem. All using ethernet. No wireless. No
> >USB.
> >
> >I had a file sharing almost working between the XP and the Win98 machines,
> >but only when sitting at the XP machine. I added a Win2000 laptop to the
> >network and went back to the XP to look for it. No dice. Ran network setup
> >wizard on the XP, but that only messed up what little file sharing I had
> >working already. Worse, the netsetup disk won't work on Win2000.
> >
> >I am pretty disgusted with how hard it is to set up what should be a simple
> >network. How do I get this working?
>
> Check for a browser conflict between the WinXP/2K computers and the Win98
> computers. I"m not talking about Internet Explorer here. The browser is the
> program that allows any computer to see any other computer on the LAN. The
> browsers for WinXP (WinNT/2K/XP) and Win98 (Win95/98/ME) don't work well
> together on the same LAN.
>
> Make sure the browser service is running on the WinXP/2K computers. Control
> Panel - Administrative Tools - Services. Verify that the Computer Browser, and
> the TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, services both show with Status = Started. Disable
> the browser on the Win98 computers:
> http://cms.simons-rock.edu/faq_by_subtopic/node138.html
> http://www.compudentsystems.com/documentation/win98.html
>
> After checking / disabling / enabling as above, power all computers off to reset
> the browser settings on each. Once ALL computers have been powered off, power
> them back on.
>
> The browser is a very common cause of problems like yours.
> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
>
> The Microsoft Browstat program will show us what browsers (I'm not talking about
> Internet Explorer here) you have in your domain / workgroup, at any time.
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
>
> You can download Browstat from either:
> <http://www.dynawell.com/reskit/microsoft/win2000/browstat.zip>
> <http://rescomp.stanford.edu/staff/manual/rcc/tools/browstat.zip>
>
> Browstat is very small (40K), and needs no install. Just unzip the downloaded
> file, copy browstat.exe to any folder in the Path, and run it from a command
> window, by "browstat status", from the XP and the 2K computer. Make sure all
> computers list the same master browser.
>
> For more information about the browser subsystem (very intricate), see:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188001
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=231312
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q102878/
> <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w95brows.mspx>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it comes from experience.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck sonic net.
>

Chuck
07-10-2005, 02:51 AM
On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:22:01 -0700, "spazminator"
<spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Chuck,
> Thanks for the reply, I think you're on the right track but my problems go
>a little deeper. The Win2000 machine is actually a laptop from work which
>expects to find the "work" domain, and Browstat indicates it is started on
>that machine on the "work" domain. I think that must be the thing causing the
>XP machine to stop its browser - even if I manually start it, it immediatly
>stops because of "no work to do".
> If I let the Win2000 machine be the master browser, is there some way to
>add the MSHOME domain to it's site list? I've had it go as far as finding the
>MSHOME in the Network Connections, and even the other machine names, but it
>never would open any further than that. (I got that far by switching the
>network from domain="work" to workgroup=MSHOME). Right now, however, it can't
>see anything but "work", because I really need the "work" part operational.

What domain / workgroup is each computer setup for?

If the Win2K computer is a domain member, and you start the browser on it, it
will enumerate computers in that domain (IOW, itself). It should also enumerate
the other domains / workgroups on the LAN, which should allow you to see your
home workgroup under Entire Network, and the other computers under there. But
when you take it back to work, you'll cause problems at work; your domain admins
won't appreciate an extra browser being online at work.

You have to have a separate browser for each domain / workgroup name on your
network. Regardless of whether you let the Win2K be the browser for its domain
(the domain being temporarily on your LAN), you'll have to resolve the issue
between the WinXP and Win98 computers. If the WinXP and Win98 computers are in
the same workgroup, you need to disable the browser on one or the other.

Start with the Win2K laptop offline, and get file sharing working between the
Win98 and WinXP computers. Then add the laptop to the combination.

Read the Microsoft white paper:
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>

Read my summary:
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>

--
Cheers,
Chuck
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

spazminator
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
Chuck,

> What domain / workgroup is each computer setup for?
The XP and Win98 are only on MSHOME workgroup. I would like the Win2000
laptop to switch between MSHOME and work domain based on the user login.

Right now I have the laptop turned off; I disabled the network browser on
the Win98 and restarted everything. When I click on the "My Network
Places\Microsoft Windows Network\MShome" 'folder', after a long delay, XP
says "Mshome is not accessible. You might not have permission.... The list of
servers for this workgroup is not current available <OK>". On Win98, I double
click on "Network Neighborhood" and it says "Unable to browse the network"
and puts up an "unreachable page" window.

Starting Computer Browser on the XP gives: "! The Computer Browser service
on Local Computer started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically
if they have no work to do... <OK>"

Browstat status on XP gives:

Status for domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{bunch of numbers}
Browsing is NOT active on domain.
Master name cannot be determined from GetAdapterStatus.

It looks to me like I have no network at all now.

--
lostinamazeoftwistyturnypassagesallthesame


"Chuck" wrote:

> On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:22:01 -0700, "spazminator"
> <spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >Chuck,
> > Thanks for the reply, I think you're on the right track but my problems go
> >a little deeper. The Win2000 machine is actually a laptop from work which
> >expects to find the "work" domain, and Browstat indicates it is started on
> >that machine on the "work" domain. I think that must be the thing causing the
> >XP machine to stop its browser - even if I manually start it, it immediatly
> >stops because of "no work to do".
> > If I let the Win2000 machine be the master browser, is there some way to
> >add the MSHOME domain to it's site list? I've had it go as far as finding the
> >MSHOME in the Network Connections, and even the other machine names, but it
> >never would open any further than that. (I got that far by switching the
> >network from domain="work" to workgroup=MSHOME). Right now, however, it can't
> >see anything but "work", because I really need the "work" part operational.
>
> What domain / workgroup is each computer setup for?
>
> If the Win2K computer is a domain member, and you start the browser on it, it
> will enumerate computers in that domain (IOW, itself). It should also enumerate
> the other domains / workgroups on the LAN, which should allow you to see your
> home workgroup under Entire Network, and the other computers under there. But
> when you take it back to work, you'll cause problems at work; your domain admins
> won't appreciate an extra browser being online at work.
>
> You have to have a separate browser for each domain / workgroup name on your
> network. Regardless of whether you let the Win2K be the browser for its domain
> (the domain being temporarily on your LAN), you'll have to resolve the issue
> between the WinXP and Win98 computers. If the WinXP and Win98 computers are in
> the same workgroup, you need to disable the browser on one or the other.
>
> Start with the Win2K laptop offline, and get file sharing working between the
> Win98 and WinXP computers. Then add the laptop to the combination.
>
> Read the Microsoft white paper:
> <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
>
> Read my summary:
> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck sonic net.
>

Chuck
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
On Mon, 16 May 2005 07:31:05 -0700, "spazminator"
<spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Chuck,
>
>> What domain / workgroup is each computer setup for?
>The XP and Win98 are only on MSHOME workgroup. I would like the Win2000
>laptop to switch between MSHOME and work domain based on the user login.
>
> Right now I have the laptop turned off; I disabled the network browser on
>the Win98 and restarted everything. When I click on the "My Network
>Places\Microsoft Windows Network\MShome" 'folder', after a long delay, XP
>says "Mshome is not accessible. You might not have permission.... The list of
>servers for this workgroup is not current available <OK>". On Win98, I double
>click on "Network Neighborhood" and it says "Unable to browse the network"
>and puts up an "unreachable page" window.
>
> Starting Computer Browser on the XP gives: "! The Computer Browser service
>on Local Computer started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically
>if they have no work to do... <OK>"
>
> Browstat status on XP gives:
>
>Status for domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{bunch of numbers}
> Browsing is NOT active on domain.
> Master name cannot be determined from GetAdapterStatus.
>
>It looks to me like I have no network at all now.

Are the Server, TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, and Workstation services Automatic, and
Started on WinXP?

Is the Browse Master stopped on Win98?
http://cms.simons-rock.edu/faq_by_subtopic/node138.html
http://www.compudentsystems.com/documentation/win98.html

Are you running both Client for Microsoft Networks, and File and Printer Sharing
for Microsoft Networks (Local Area Connection - Properties), on each computer?
Do you have shares setup on each?

Are you running NetBIOS Over TCP/IP (Local Area Connection - Properties - TCP/IP
- Properties - Advanced - WINS) on each computer?

--
Cheers,
Chuck
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

spazminator
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
"Chuck" wrote:
> Are the Server, TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, and Workstation services Automatic, and
> Started on WinXP?
Yes. Yes.

> Is the Browse Master stopped on Win98?
Yes.

> Are you running both Client for Microsoft Networks, and File and Printer Sharing
> for Microsoft Networks (Local Area Connection - Properties), on each computer?
> Do you have shares setup on each?
XP -- Yes. Yes. Yes.
98 -- Yes. Yes. Yes.

> Are you running NetBIOS Over TCP/IP (Local Area Connection - Properties - TCP/IP
> - Properties - Advanced - WINS) on each computer?
XP -- Addresses box is empty; Enable LMHOSTS lookup checked, NetBIOS
setting=Default.
98 -- "Use DHCP for WINS resolution" selected.

>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck sonic net.
>

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.
--
lostinamazeoftwistyturnypassagesallthesame

spazminator
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
Chuck,

You should add one more thing to your checklist... The egg is on my face. I
had to turn off "Don't allow exceptions" on my XP Windows Firewall. (LAN
Properties > Advanced). File Sharing is one of the things that require an
exception. D'oh.

Now the XP to 98 connection is working from either end. That fix to the
browser service was right after all. THANKS!

On the W2k laptop, I suspect my work IT dept. has installed something to
prevent home network (ab)use. Where can I start looking for a way to make the
switch? If I can't make it switch domains based on which user logs in, I'm ok
with some relatively easy reconfig/restart... I just gotta get all my
personal files off it... soon.

--
lostinamazeoftwistyturnypassagesallthesame

Chuck
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:12:02 -0700, "spazminator"
<spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>"Chuck" wrote:
>> Are the Server, TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, and Workstation services Automatic, and
>> Started on WinXP?
>Yes. Yes.
>
>> Is the Browse Master stopped on Win98?
>Yes.
>
>> Are you running both Client for Microsoft Networks, and File and Printer Sharing
>> for Microsoft Networks (Local Area Connection - Properties), on each computer?
>> Do you have shares setup on each?
>XP -- Yes. Yes. Yes.
>98 -- Yes. Yes. Yes.
>
>> Are you running NetBIOS Over TCP/IP (Local Area Connection - Properties - TCP/IP
>> - Properties - Advanced - WINS) on each computer?
>XP -- Addresses box is empty; Enable LMHOSTS lookup checked, NetBIOS
>setting=Default.
>98 -- "Use DHCP for WINS resolution" selected.

Your problem right now is that the Browser service isn't running on the Windows
XP computer. When you started it, did you set its startup type to Manual or
Automatic?


See this BlackViper article on the Computer Browser service:
<http://web.archive.org/web/20041130032640/http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/service411.htm#Computer_Browser>
The Computer Browser needs the Server, Workstation, and TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper
services. Are all 3 running on the Windows XP computer?

--
Cheers,
Chuck
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

Chuck
07-10-2005, 02:52 AM
On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:47:01 -0700, "spazminator"
<spazminator@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Chuck,
>
>You should add one more thing to your checklist... The egg is on my face. I
>had to turn off "Don't allow exceptions" on my XP Windows Firewall. (LAN
>Properties > Advanced). File Sharing is one of the things that require an
>exception. D'oh.
>
>Now the XP to 98 connection is working from either end. That fix to the
>browser service was right after all. THANKS!
>
>On the W2k laptop, I suspect my work IT dept. has installed something to
>prevent home network (ab)use. Where can I start looking for a way to make the
>switch? If I can't make it switch domains based on which user logs in, I'm ok
>with some relatively easy reconfig/restart... I just gotta get all my
>personal files off it... soon.

Excellent. Item added to the list, thanks for the feedback.

On the laptop issue, this may be something that you need to negotiate with your
IT group. This is not the first time this sort of limitation has come up.
Maybe on of the 3 multi-configuration managers here will help:
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/have-laptop-will-travel.html#Complex

If your IT group can't sort it out, you may have to live with finding the laptop
in Network Neighborhood - Entire Network - Microsoft Windows Network - (Work
Domain). As carrying computers all over the place becomes more and more common,
Windows is going to need to adapt, and deal with dynamic environments better. I
hear improvements are coming with Longhorn - whenever that gets here.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.


Need help networking XP with Win98 and Win2000