Thanks!! Clean Install



persian ram
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.

I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to come
up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address book and
messages, but it finally appeared.

The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:" from
any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.

Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the SP2
diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24 meg
"update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that set
installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.

I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed some
strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to take
many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier was
not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and everything
works fine now.

MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is incompatible
with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite. Thanks,
MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted that my
older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would HAVE to
buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the Dell
and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting past
the upgrade gate and everything is fine.

All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a weekend
getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took much
longer than need be, I am sure.

If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or virus
breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.

chuck

Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
Chuck

You will also need to download Spyware removal software.. Spybot and Adaware
are available at these websites.. download and run them.. don't forget to
check for updates after you have started them..



http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html



http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/



.... and this link is for the latest Microsoft helping..



http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx



Spybot has the ability to immunize a system, but there is better for this
function, so download and run Spyware Blaster too.. again, check for
updates..



http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/




--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





"persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
>
> I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to come
> up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address book
> and
> messages, but it finally appeared.
>
> The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:"
> from
> any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
>
> Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the
> SP2
> diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24
> meg
> "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that set
> installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
>
> I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed some
> strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to take
> many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier was
> not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and everything
> works fine now.
>
> MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is incompatible
> with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> Thanks,
> MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted that
> my
> older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would HAVE
> to
> buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the Dell
> and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting
> past
> the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
>
> All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> weekend
> getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
> Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took much
> longer than need be, I am sure.
>
> If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or virus
> breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
>
> chuck
>
>

David Candy
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know about
Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.

Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP to
make it work.
Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
special code to allow this program to work.

They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and corels can
test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.

You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred generic
ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.


"persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
>
> I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to come
> up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address book
and
> messages, but it finally appeared.
>
> The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:"
from
> any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
>
> Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the
SP2
> diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24
meg
> "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that set
> installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
>
> I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed some
> strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to take
> many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier was
> not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and everything
> works fine now.
>
> MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is incompatible
> with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
Thanks,
> MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted that
my
> older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would HAVE
to
> buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the Dell
> and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting
past
> the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
>
> All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
weekend
> getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
> Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took much
> longer than need be, I am sure.
>
> If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or virus
> breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
>
> chuck
>
>

Galen
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
In news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl,
persian ram <chuck_petterson@excite.com> had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

> If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or
> virus breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.

Well spoken. I hope that there's a specifically vile afterlife for them
though I'm not really a very spiritual person. This is one of those
situations where I'd actually wish people misfortune. With one notable
exception. Hackers come in all breeds, the overwhelming majority of them are
law abiding geeks and IT workers. However I agree with the rest of it.

Galen
--

"And that recommendation, with the exaggerated estimate of my ability
with which he prefaced it, was, if you will believe me, Watson, the
very first thing which ever made me feel that a profession might be
made out of what had up to that time been the merest hobby."

Sherlock Holmes

persian ram
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
not to beat a dead horse, but your words don't reflect my experiences.

I have yet to install an "improved" MS operating system thatwas faster than
the one it is suposed to replace or cause screw ups in existing software.
In the past 20 years I have spent thousands of dollars on software, none of
which has much more useabilty or reliabilty than the edition I originally
purchased. Most purchases were made to accomodate incompatibilities with
new MS operating systems when I upgraded a computer. MS clogs its
"operating system" with "features" I neither use nor want. These items add
to the complexity of the program and slow down everything.

I have purchased my last MS OS system. When I can't keep these machines
patched together any longer I will go linux or mac.

chuck



"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
news:#LLDersYFHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know about
> Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.
>
> Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP to
> make it work.
> Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
> Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
> special code to allow this program to work.
>
> They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and corels
can
> test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
> 1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
> programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
> 2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.
>
> You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred generic
> ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
> Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.
>
>
> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
> >
> > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to
come
> > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address book
> and
> > messages, but it finally appeared.
> >
> > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:"
> from
> > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
> >
> > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the
> SP2
> > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24
> meg
> > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that set
> > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
> >
> > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed some
> > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to
take
> > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier
was
> > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
everything
> > works fine now.
> >
> > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
incompatible
> > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> Thanks,
> > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
that
> my
> > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would HAVE
> to
> > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the
Dell
> > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting
> past
> > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
> >
> > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> weekend
> > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
> > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took much
> > longer than need be, I am sure.
> >
> > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or virus
> > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
> >
> > chuck
> >
> >
>
>

persian ram
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
Yeah, I did that, too. I didn't list all of the actions I had to take. The
story was long and sad enough as it was!! ;o)

BTW, I really like the adaware.

chuck
"Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" <mike.hall.mail@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:e1rr0hsYFHA.980@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Chuck
>
> You will also need to download Spyware removal software.. Spybot and
Adaware
> are available at these websites.. download and run them.. don't forget to
> check for updates after you have started them..
>
>
>
> http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html
>
>
>
> http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/
>
>
>
> ... and this link is for the latest Microsoft helping..
>
>
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx
>
>
>
> Spybot has the ability to immunize a system, but there is better for this
> function, so download and run Spyware Blaster too.. again, check for
> updates..
>
>
>
> http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mike Hall
> MVP - Windows Shell/User
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
> >
> > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to
come
> > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address book
> > and
> > messages, but it finally appeared.
> >
> > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:"
> > from
> > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
> >
> > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the
> > SP2
> > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24
> > meg
> > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that set
> > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
> >
> > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed some
> > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to
take
> > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier
was
> > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
everything
> > works fine now.
> >
> > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
incompatible
> > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> > Thanks,
> > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
that
> > my
> > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would HAVE
> > to
> > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the
Dell
> > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting
> > past
> > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
> >
> > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> > weekend
> > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
> > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took much
> > longer than need be, I am sure.
> >
> > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or virus
> > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
> >
> > chuck
> >
> >
>
>

David Candy
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
I never said it was faster. I didn't say anything that you are arguing
about.
"persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
news:O9bQnhtYFHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> not to beat a dead horse, but your words don't reflect my experiences.
>
> I have yet to install an "improved" MS operating system thatwas faster
than
> the one it is suposed to replace or cause screw ups in existing software.
> In the past 20 years I have spent thousands of dollars on software, none
of
> which has much more useabilty or reliabilty than the edition I originally
> purchased. Most purchases were made to accomodate incompatibilities with
> new MS operating systems when I upgraded a computer. MS clogs its
> "operating system" with "features" I neither use nor want. These items
add
> to the complexity of the program and slow down everything.
>
> I have purchased my last MS OS system. When I can't keep these machines
> patched together any longer I will go linux or mac.
>
> chuck
>
>
>
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:#LLDersYFHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know
about
> > Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.
> >
> > Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP
to
> > make it work.
> > Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
> > Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
> > special code to allow this program to work.
> >
> > They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and corels
> can
> > test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
> > 1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
> > programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
> > 2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.
> >
> > You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred generic
> > ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
> > Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.
> >
> >
> > "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> > news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> > > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
> > >
> > > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to
> come
> > > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address
book
> > and
> > > messages, but it finally appeared.
> > >
> > > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format
c:"
> > from
> > > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
> > >
> > > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by
the
> > SP2
> > > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the
24
> > meg
> > > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that
set
> > > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
> > >
> > > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed
some
> > > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to
> take
> > > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier
> was
> > > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
> everything
> > > works fine now.
> > >
> > > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
> incompatible
> > > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> > Thanks,
> > > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
> that
> > my
> > > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would
HAVE
> > to
> > > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the
> Dell
> > > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for
getting
> > past
> > > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
> > >
> > > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> > weekend
> > > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
> > > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took
much
> > > longer than need be, I am sure.
> > >
> > > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or
virus
> > > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
> > >
> > > chuck
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Jack
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
oebackupfull2.9.zip

works good. find it on google.com


"persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
>
> I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to come
> up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address book
> and
> messages, but it finally appeared.
>
> The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:"
> from
> any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
>
> Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the
> SP2
> diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24
> meg
> "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that set
> installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
>
> I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed some
> strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to take
> many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier was
> not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and everything
> works fine now.
>
> MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is incompatible
> with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> Thanks,
> MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted that
> my
> older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would HAVE
> to
> buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the Dell
> and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting
> past
> the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
>
> All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> weekend
> getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
> Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took much
> longer than need be, I am sure.
>
> If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or virus
> breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
>
> chuck
>
>

Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
Chuck

An operating system is only as fast as the system on which it resides..

Re. programs, if programmers were to always take into account backwards
compatibility, we would still be stuck with DOS based word processors that
have just three fonts available..

WordPerfect has had a history of incompatibility re Windows (WP 7 wasn't too
bad but did crash out on occasion), but it is the OS that drives the system,
and should take priority over programs.. if Corel choose to use programming
code to get what they want, and it proves to be incompatible with the OS,
then they must change the code..

If you look back at any program, there has always been an element of
incompatibility with newer OSes.. to make a program with new and better
features often involved functions that may only be available in Win 98 as
opposed to Win 3.11 for instance..

So none of us like paying for upgrades all of the time.. the answer is to
only upgrade if you really have a need, i.e. not every version step..

Linux and Mac programs do not rate as the worlds best by a long shot.. they
are also a little thin on the ground.. WordPerfect released a version of one
of their office suites for the Mac aways back, but the features were reduced
compared to the Windows version purely because MacOS lacked some
functionality..

Re. features in a newly installed computer, how would you feel if you bought
a computer and could do nothing with it other than just access various bits
of hardware?.. the way things are, you can hook up a printer and create a
letter, play a game, scan and print out pictures, play music, receive
e-mail, surf the net, all kinds of things..

What would you like to see removed, and if MS did what you asked, what
effect would that have on others who do not have the cash at all to buy
programs that would give them even a modicum of functionality?



--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





"persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
news:O9bQnhtYFHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> not to beat a dead horse, but your words don't reflect my experiences.
>
> I have yet to install an "improved" MS operating system thatwas faster
> than
> the one it is suposed to replace or cause screw ups in existing software.
> In the past 20 years I have spent thousands of dollars on software, none
> of
> which has much more useabilty or reliabilty than the edition I originally
> purchased. Most purchases were made to accomodate incompatibilities with
> new MS operating systems when I upgraded a computer. MS clogs its
> "operating system" with "features" I neither use nor want. These items
> add
> to the complexity of the program and slow down everything.
>
> I have purchased my last MS OS system. When I can't keep these machines
> patched together any longer I will go linux or mac.
>
> chuck
>
>
>
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> news:#LLDersYFHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know about
>> Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.
>>
>> Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP to
>> make it work.
>> Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
>> Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
>> special code to allow this program to work.
>>
>> They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and corels
> can
>> test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
>> 1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
>> programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
>> 2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.
>>
>> You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred generic
>> ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
>> Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.
>>
>>
>> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
>> news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
>> > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
>> >
>> > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to
> come
>> > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address
>> > book
>> and
>> > messages, but it finally appeared.
>> >
>> > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format c:"
>> from
>> > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
>> >
>> > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by the
>> SP2
>> > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the 24
>> meg
>> > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that
>> > set
>> > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of updates.
>> >
>> > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed
>> > some
>> > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to
> take
>> > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier
> was
>> > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
> everything
>> > works fine now.
>> >
>> > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
> incompatible
>> > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
>> Thanks,
>> > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
> that
>> my
>> > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would
>> > HAVE
>> to
>> > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the
> Dell
>> > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for getting
>> past
>> > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
>> >
>> > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
>> weekend
>> > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it up.
>> > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took
>> > much
>> > longer than need be, I am sure.
>> >
>> > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or
>> > virus
>> > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
>> >
>> > chuck
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

David Candy
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
Microsoft write special routines for WP. Both V8 and 9 have special compat
shims. 7 is probably too old for XP.
"Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" <mike.hall.mail@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eFEL#bvYFHA.3272@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Chuck
>
> An operating system is only as fast as the system on which it resides..
>
> Re. programs, if programmers were to always take into account backwards
> compatibility, we would still be stuck with DOS based word processors that
> have just three fonts available..
>
> WordPerfect has had a history of incompatibility re Windows (WP 7 wasn't
too
> bad but did crash out on occasion), but it is the OS that drives the
system,
> and should take priority over programs.. if Corel choose to use
programming
> code to get what they want, and it proves to be incompatible with the OS,
> then they must change the code..
>
> If you look back at any program, there has always been an element of
> incompatibility with newer OSes.. to make a program with new and better
> features often involved functions that may only be available in Win 98 as
> opposed to Win 3.11 for instance..
>
> So none of us like paying for upgrades all of the time.. the answer is to
> only upgrade if you really have a need, i.e. not every version step..
>
> Linux and Mac programs do not rate as the worlds best by a long shot..
they
> are also a little thin on the ground.. WordPerfect released a version of
one
> of their office suites for the Mac aways back, but the features were
reduced
> compared to the Windows version purely because MacOS lacked some
> functionality..
>
> Re. features in a newly installed computer, how would you feel if you
bought
> a computer and could do nothing with it other than just access various
bits
> of hardware?.. the way things are, you can hook up a printer and create a
> letter, play a game, scan and print out pictures, play music, receive
> e-mail, surf the net, all kinds of things..
>
> What would you like to see removed, and if MS did what you asked, what
> effect would that have on others who do not have the cash at all to buy
> programs that would give them even a modicum of functionality?
>
>
>
> --
> Mike Hall
> MVP - Windows Shell/User
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:O9bQnhtYFHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > not to beat a dead horse, but your words don't reflect my experiences.
> >
> > I have yet to install an "improved" MS operating system thatwas faster
> > than
> > the one it is suposed to replace or cause screw ups in existing
software.
> > In the past 20 years I have spent thousands of dollars on software, none
> > of
> > which has much more useabilty or reliabilty than the edition I
originally
> > purchased. Most purchases were made to accomodate incompatibilities
with
> > new MS operating systems when I upgraded a computer. MS clogs its
> > "operating system" with "features" I neither use nor want. These items
> > add
> > to the complexity of the program and slow down everything.
> >
> > I have purchased my last MS OS system. When I can't keep these machines
> > patched together any longer I will go linux or mac.
> >
> > chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> > news:#LLDersYFHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know
about
> >> Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.
> >>
> >> Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP
to
> >> make it work.
> >> Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
> >> Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
> >> special code to allow this program to work.
> >>
> >> They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and
corels
> > can
> >> test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
> >> 1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
> >> programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
> >> 2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.
> >>
> >> You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred
generic
> >> ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
> >> Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.
> >>
> >>
> >> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> >> news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> >> > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
> >> >
> >> > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to
> > come
> >> > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address
> >> > book
> >> and
> >> > messages, but it finally appeared.
> >> >
> >> > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format
c:"
> >> from
> >> > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
> >> >
> >> > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by
the
> >> SP2
> >> > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the
24
> >> meg
> >> > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that
> >> > set
> >> > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of
updates.
> >> >
> >> > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed
> >> > some
> >> > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to
> > take
> >> > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier
> > was
> >> > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
> > everything
> >> > works fine now.
> >> >
> >> > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
> > incompatible
> >> > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> >> Thanks,
> >> > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
> > that
> >> my
> >> > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would
> >> > HAVE
> >> to
> >> > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the
> > Dell
> >> > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for
getting
> >> past
> >> > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
> >> >
> >> > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> >> weekend
> >> > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it
up.
> >> > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took
> >> > much
> >> > longer than need be, I am sure.
> >> >
> >> > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or
> >> > virus
> >> > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
> >> >
> >> > chuck
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)
07-10-2005, 01:12 AM
David

Unfortunately, it is.. a good office suite that was not weighted down too
much, and so easily customizable..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
news:%23WyI8jwYFHA.3780@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Microsoft write special routines for WP. Both V8 and 9 have special compat
> shims. 7 is probably too old for XP.
> "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" <mike.hall.mail@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:eFEL#bvYFHA.3272@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Chuck
>>
>> An operating system is only as fast as the system on which it resides..
>>
>> Re. programs, if programmers were to always take into account backwards
>> compatibility, we would still be stuck with DOS based word processors
>> that
>> have just three fonts available..
>>
>> WordPerfect has had a history of incompatibility re Windows (WP 7 wasn't
> too
>> bad but did crash out on occasion), but it is the OS that drives the
> system,
>> and should take priority over programs.. if Corel choose to use
> programming
>> code to get what they want, and it proves to be incompatible with the OS,
>> then they must change the code..
>>
>> If you look back at any program, there has always been an element of
>> incompatibility with newer OSes.. to make a program with new and better
>> features often involved functions that may only be available in Win 98 as
>> opposed to Win 3.11 for instance..
>>
>> So none of us like paying for upgrades all of the time.. the answer is to
>> only upgrade if you really have a need, i.e. not every version step..
>>
>> Linux and Mac programs do not rate as the worlds best by a long shot..
> they
>> are also a little thin on the ground.. WordPerfect released a version of
> one
>> of their office suites for the Mac aways back, but the features were
> reduced
>> compared to the Windows version purely because MacOS lacked some
>> functionality..
>>
>> Re. features in a newly installed computer, how would you feel if you
> bought
>> a computer and could do nothing with it other than just access various
> bits
>> of hardware?.. the way things are, you can hook up a printer and create a
>> letter, play a game, scan and print out pictures, play music, receive
>> e-mail, surf the net, all kinds of things..
>>
>> What would you like to see removed, and if MS did what you asked, what
>> effect would that have on others who do not have the cash at all to buy
>> programs that would give them even a modicum of functionality?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hall
>> MVP - Windows Shell/User
>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
>> news:O9bQnhtYFHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > not to beat a dead horse, but your words don't reflect my experiences.
>> >
>> > I have yet to install an "improved" MS operating system thatwas faster
>> > than
>> > the one it is suposed to replace or cause screw ups in existing
> software.
>> > In the past 20 years I have spent thousands of dollars on software,
>> > none
>> > of
>> > which has much more useabilty or reliabilty than the edition I
> originally
>> > purchased. Most purchases were made to accomodate incompatibilities
> with
>> > new MS operating systems when I upgraded a computer. MS clogs its
>> > "operating system" with "features" I neither use nor want. These items
>> > add
>> > to the complexity of the program and slow down everything.
>> >
>> > I have purchased my last MS OS system. When I can't keep these machines
>> > patched together any longer I will go linux or mac.
>> >
>> > chuck
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>> > news:#LLDersYFHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> >> They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know
> about
>> >> Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.
>> >>
>> >> Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP
> to
>> >> make it work.
>> >> Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
>> >> Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
>> >> special code to allow this program to work.
>> >>
>> >> They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and
> corels
>> > can
>> >> test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
>> >> 1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
>> >> programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
>> >> 2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.
>> >>
>> >> You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred
> generic
>> >> ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
>> >> Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
>> >> > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
>> >> >
>> >> > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone
>> >> > to
>> > come
>> >> > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address
>> >> > book
>> >> and
>> >> > messages, but it finally appeared.
>> >> >
>> >> > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format
> c:"
>> >> from
>> >> > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
>> >> >
>> >> > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by
> the
>> >> SP2
>> >> > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the
> 24
>> >> meg
>> >> > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that
>> >> > set
>> >> > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of
> updates.
>> >> >
>> >> > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed
>> >> > some
>> >> > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed
>> >> > to
>> > take
>> >> > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my
>> >> > printer-fax-copier
>> > was
>> >> > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
>> > everything
>> >> > works fine now.
>> >> >
>> >> > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
>> > incompatible
>> >> > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
>> > that
>> >> my
>> >> > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would
>> >> > HAVE
>> >> to
>> >> > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought
>> >> > the
>> > Dell
>> >> > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for
> getting
>> >> past
>> >> > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
>> >> >
>> >> > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
>> >> weekend
>> >> > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it
> up.
>> >> > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took
>> >> > much
>> >> > longer than need be, I am sure.
>> >> >
>> >> > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or
>> >> > virus
>> >> > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
>> >> >
>> >> > chuck
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

persian ram
07-10-2005, 01:13 AM
Mike,

what I would like to see is the ability to choose what to install and remove
(what are to me) unecessary items. I would also like to know what the 38
processes are that are running all of the time.

You may counter with, "you can remove this or that" but when one tries to
eliminate unwanted applications, such as Messenger, a warning comes up
that this may compromise other programs. Oh yeah? Like which ones?

I do not want or need any of the space consuming code that is required for
networking. I would prefer NOT to have MS wizard for my camera and scanner.
How did MS eliminate my way-better scanner software?

In short, yes all I want is the speed and simplicity that was DOS, expanded
a little bit to accomodate the ability for external inputs. I don't care
about games, playing music, talking on the phone via internet, web cams or
any of that other mind-numbing, time wasting crap. I have a genuine life.
I look after 9 dogs, play in two bands, am rebuilding an old sports car and
maintain my house and yard in addition to a regular job. On the side I am in
the middle of planning a military reunion. I really don't want to have to
spend time cleaning up a computer or trying to figure out why things
disappear everytime I do a MS "upgrade". I want MS to stop bundling all of
their mediocre applications into the operating system and allow us consumers
to make our choices based on our wants and needs. I got a hot flash for MS:
Yes, you guys are obviously very smart and hard working, BUT very few of
your customers appreciate your arrogant, heavy handed approach in deciding
that "you know best" what is needed or wanted in a computer application.

I will give MS this kudo amid the criticsm, SP2 did the right thing in
"getting out of the way", so to speak, of third party security software. I
just wish it would stop interfering with everything else.

chuck

"Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" <mike.hall.mail@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eFEL#bvYFHA.3272@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Chuck
>
> An operating system is only as fast as the system on which it resides..
>
> Re. programs, if programmers were to always take into account backwards
> compatibility, we would still be stuck with DOS based word processors that
> have just three fonts available..
>
> WordPerfect has had a history of incompatibility re Windows (WP 7 wasn't
too
> bad but did crash out on occasion), but it is the OS that drives the
system,
> and should take priority over programs.. if Corel choose to use
programming
> code to get what they want, and it proves to be incompatible with the OS,
> then they must change the code..
>
> If you look back at any program, there has always been an element of
> incompatibility with newer OSes.. to make a program with new and better
> features often involved functions that may only be available in Win 98 as
> opposed to Win 3.11 for instance..
>
> So none of us like paying for upgrades all of the time.. the answer is to
> only upgrade if you really have a need, i.e. not every version step..
>
> Linux and Mac programs do not rate as the worlds best by a long shot..
they
> are also a little thin on the ground.. WordPerfect released a version of
one
> of their office suites for the Mac aways back, but the features were
reduced
> compared to the Windows version purely because MacOS lacked some
> functionality..
>
> Re. features in a newly installed computer, how would you feel if you
bought
> a computer and could do nothing with it other than just access various
bits
> of hardware?.. the way things are, you can hook up a printer and create a
> letter, play a game, scan and print out pictures, play music, receive
> e-mail, surf the net, all kinds of things..
>
> What would you like to see removed, and if MS did what you asked, what
> effect would that have on others who do not have the cash at all to buy
> programs that would give them even a modicum of functionality?
>
>
>
> --
> Mike Hall
> MVP - Windows Shell/User
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:O9bQnhtYFHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > not to beat a dead horse, but your words don't reflect my experiences.
> >
> > I have yet to install an "improved" MS operating system thatwas faster
> > than
> > the one it is suposed to replace or cause screw ups in existing
software.
> > In the past 20 years I have spent thousands of dollars on software, none
> > of
> > which has much more useabilty or reliabilty than the edition I
originally
> > purchased. Most purchases were made to accomodate incompatibilities
with
> > new MS operating systems when I upgraded a computer. MS clogs its
> > "operating system" with "features" I neither use nor want. These items
> > add
> > to the complexity of the program and slow down everything.
> >
> > I have purchased my last MS OS system. When I can't keep these machines
> > patched together any longer I will go linux or mac.
> >
> > chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
> > news:#LLDersYFHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> They go out of their way to make it old programs work. I don't know
about
> >> Quark but only 3 Corel programs are listed for compatability.
> >>
> >> Corel Office 2000 - the dictation setup program has special code in XP
to
> >> make it work.
> >> Corel Reference - XP disables themes for this program.
> >> Corel Draw 9 - I think this is for the Japanese version only - XP has
> >> special code to allow this program to work.
> >>
> >> They have teams at MS that just test applications. The quarks and
corels
> > can
> >> test their own programs and tell MS as well. MS will do either
> >> 1. If it applies to a large number of programs make Windows work how
> >> programs expect (this is often due to common bugs in applications)
> >> 2. If it is a bug in only one program write a compat shim for it.
> >>
> >> You can make any program use any shim (there are several hundred
generic
> >> ones too for old programs that didn't follow the rules). Install the
> >> Application Compat Toolkit of the XP CD-Rom.
> >>
> >>
> >> "persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
> >> news:ezR9EIsYFHA.1092@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> > Thanks to those of you "regulars" who gave advice to me in my recent
> >> > struggle with my wife's compromised Dell Dimension 4500S XP machine.
> >> >
> >> > I backed up all of the data. It took nearly two weeks for someone to
> > come
> >> > up with a workable method of backing up the Outlook Express address
> >> > book
> >> and
> >> > messages, but it finally appeared.
> >> >
> >> > The machine fought me to th bitter end. It didn't want to "format
c:"
> >> from
> >> > any place. I eventually cracked its stubborn code and got underway.
> >> >
> >> > Everything went reasonably smooth. I used my oem disk, followed by
the
> >> SP2
> >> > diskthat I received a few days earlier. This was follwed up by the
24
> >> meg
> >> > "update" to SP2. Why can't MS ship CURRENT disks?? When I had that
> >> > set
> >> > installed I loaded Norton which, of course, needed 20 megs of
updates.
> >> >
> >> > I followed that with reloading the various applications. I noticed
> >> > some
> >> > strange goings on during application loading. Applications seemed to
> > take
> >> > many minutes to get "settled in". Software for my printer-fax-copier
> > was
> >> > not happy, so I uninstalled it and subsequently reinstalled and
> > everything
> >> > works fine now.
> >> >
> >> > MS seems to go out of its way to make sure corel software is
> > incompatible
> >> > with XP, so I had to buy a new edition of the corel office suite.
> >> Thanks,
> >> > MS. Other application suppliers are just as greedy. Quark insisted
> > that
> >> my
> >> > older version of Quark Xpress(4.1) would not work on XP and I would
> >> > HAVE
> >> to
> >> > buy 5.0 or later. HA!! 4.1 had been running on XP since I bought the
> > Dell
> >> > and another machine that has XP. I dug out the secret code for
getting
> >> past
> >> > the upgrade gate and everything is fine.
> >> >
> >> > All in all I lost one day of work plus three evenings and part of a
> >> weekend
> >> > getting the machine ready to rebuild and then actually cleaning it
up.
> >> > Since I am not a computer geek in my daily life, the processes took
> >> > much
> >> > longer than need be, I am sure.
> >> >
> >> > If there are any hackers or worm makers, trojan horse builders, or
> >> > virus
> >> > breedeers looking at this message, I hope you burn in hell.
> >> >
> >> > chuck
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)
07-10-2005, 01:13 AM
Chuck

When loading Windows 9x, the user was given the option of adding components
along the way.. the problem with this is that they often didn't, choosing to
click next without realising the consequences.. ok for you, but the majority
couldn't then understand where all of the little programs were.. what is
more, most did not want to spend the time customising at the point of
install..

Pick on Messenger if you will as it appears to validate your argument
better, but it is the improved integration of various components that makes
XP what it is, and gives functionality, some of which you might not regard
as 'crap', but you can't have it all ways.. integration is integration..

A fair amount of programming can be easily removed through the ADD/REMOVE
PROGRAMS function.. not exactly difficult.. but if XP is installed on a
system specified well enough to handle the OS as installed, none of this
code is a problem..

The processes running in the background are NOT ALL RUNNING.. you will see
that many are in fact stopped.. the services exist such that when you add a
function that you do not see as crap, the background code is there to
support it.. I can well imagine what you might say if you had to not only
load a program or function, but all of the background stuff too.. again, if
the computer is well enough specified to handle the OS, then none of this is
a problem.. if a user chooses to load XP on a machine that is borderline,
that is not the fault of Microsoft..

You still haven't addressed the problem of the first time buyer or average
family who has no idea about what the computer will do, or what programs to
buy as add-ons.. some people love playing Solitaire and get well and truly
hooked.. some like to play music and make up composite music CDs in much the
same way as they might have with cassette decks and stereos.. and there is a
problem with that?.. no one is taking away your right to choose whatever you
want, but they are giving you something that can be used straight out of the
box, albeit at a simple level..

At no point have I been arrogant or heavy-handed.. much less so than those
who advocate Linux or Mac.. one of the arguments put up by Linux converts is
that all Linux versions that include a GUI have the same kind of features as
XP.. seems to me that you wouldn't like the crap in them either.. but you
could have Open Office installed, I guess.. you might not miss some
functions that MS Office has, but then again, you may not have some of the
functions that you do like, because some go hand in hand.. and you certainly
would be able to clutter your computer (other than all of the mini-apps that
come included in Linux) because they are not available for the platform..

Pay a visit to Mac and Linux forums.. take a look at the multiplicity of
problems that they have.. disproportionately high considering the amount of
people who have them.. and are the problems any easier to get fixed?.. you
decide..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





"persian ram" <chuck_petterson@excite.com> wrote in message
news:uAdiAn6YFHA.3184@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Mike,
>
> what I would like to see is the ability to choose what to install and
> remove
> (what are to me) unecessary items. I would also like to know what the 38
> processes are that are running all of the time.
>
> You may counter with, "you can remove this or that" but when one tries to
> eliminate unwanted applications, such as Messenger, a warning comes up
> that this may compromise other programs. Oh yeah? Like which ones?
>
> I do not want or need any of the space consuming code that is required for
> networking. I would prefer NOT to have MS wizard for my camera and
> scanner.
> How did MS eliminate my way-better scanner software?
>
> In short, yes all I want is the speed and simplicity that was DOS,
> expanded
> a little bit to accomodate the ability for external inputs. I don't care
> about games, playing music, talking on the phone via internet, web cams or
> any of that other mind-numbing, time wasting crap. I have a genuine life.
> I look after 9 dogs, play in two bands, am rebuilding an old sports car
> and
> maintain my house and yard in addition to a regular job. On the side I am
> in
> the middle of planning a military reunion. I really don't want to have
> to
> spend time cleaning up a computer or trying to figure out why things
> disappear everytime I do a MS "upgrade". I want MS to stop bundling all
> of
> their mediocre applications into the operating system and allow us
> consumers
> to make our choices based on our wants and needs. I got a hot flash for
> MS:
> Yes, you guys are obviously very smart and hard working, BUT very few of
> your customers appreciate your arrogant, heavy handed approach in deciding
> that "you know best" what is needed or wanted in a computer application.
>
> I will give MS this kudo amid the criticsm, SP2 did the right thing in
> "getting out of the way", so to speak, of third party security software.
> I
> just wish it would stop interfering with everything else.
>
> chuck
>


Thanks!! Clean Install