[John C. Iliff]

Sorry, if you see this...I've tried posting several times, and getting no
post. This is a new newsgroup for me, and trying to see if I can get here!

John

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Yes it works, but please use the test groups in the future as they use the
same server. If they work there, they will work here.

microsoft.test
microsoft.public.test.here

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"John C. Iliff" <joniliff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:wrUqe.27179$J12.19876@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Sorry, if you see this...I've tried posting several times, and getting no
> post. This is a new newsgroup for me, and trying to see if I can get here!
>
> John
>

[Alan Smith]

alt.test (and lots of others) for this kind of thing.
This is what they are for, can you please use them.

"John C. Iliff" <joniliff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:wrUqe.27179$J12.19876@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Sorry, if you see this...I've tried posting several times, and getting no
> post. This is a new newsgroup for me, and trying to see if I can get here!
>
> John
>

[Don Schmidt]

Why is that "test" is criticized so much? Seems every deviation thought of
is tolerated but if someone uses the word "test" the individual gets jumped
on by others. Please don't tell me about bandwidth, cost, or wastes others'
time reading them. If the test message violates the "code" of the news
group, don't the messages that respond to them also commit the same
violation.

Folks need to get creative, don't "test", ask about a ng related condition.
They get their test and meet new people.

--
Don
"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."



"Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u%23R8aL0bFHA.3400@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Yes it works, but please use the test groups in the future as they use the
> same server. If they work there, they will work here.
>
> microsoft.test
> microsoft.public.test.here
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "John C. Iliff" <joniliff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:wrUqe.27179$J12.19876@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> Sorry, if you see this...I've tried posting several times, and getting no
>> post. This is a new newsgroup for me, and trying to see if I can get
>> here!
>>
>> John
>>
>
>

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Hi Don,

If no one tells people about the availability of test groups, then they will
never know it. My response (actually it is a canned one) is meant to convey
that, not to admonish them. Note that there is nothing negative in the
response, and that I only confirm that which they wish to know before
redirecting them. The test groups are specifically set up for these
connectivity issues, and like other program or feature-specific groups, the
user should be redirected there.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote in message
news:11ao9rfjra4ao9f@corp.supernews.com...
> Why is that "test" is criticized so much? Seems every deviation thought
> of is tolerated but if someone uses the word "test" the individual gets
> jumped on by others. Please don't tell me about bandwidth, cost, or wastes
> others' time reading them. If the test message violates the "code" of the
> news group, don't the messages that respond to them also commit the same
> violation.
>
> Folks need to get creative, don't "test", ask about a ng related
> condition. They get their test and meet new people.
>
> --
> Don
> "Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
>
>
>
> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:u%23R8aL0bFHA.3400@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Yes it works, but please use the test groups in the future as they use
>> the same server. If they work there, they will work here.
>>
>> microsoft.test
>> microsoft.public.test.here
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
>> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>>
>> "John C. Iliff" <joniliff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:wrUqe.27179$J12.19876@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>> Sorry, if you see this...I've tried posting several times, and getting
>>> no post. This is a new newsgroup for me, and trying to see if I can get
>>> here!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Paul E Collins]

"Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote:

> If the test message violates the "code" of the news group,
> don't the messages that respond to them also commit the
> same violation.

Sure, but in the long run there will be fewer misplaced test messages
if people are told where to post them instead.

P.

[Don Schmidt]

Rick, Paul,

My contention is doing a test is a lesser violation than some of the
language, or requests of other programs or a thread that goes on forever
that goes into topics that aren't even close to computers.... restaurants,
clothes, vacations and on and on and on.

Also doing a test in the test ng doesn't mean it's a sure thing connection
can be made in the group of interest.

And, if test messages were just ignored as most of them wish, there wouldn't
be a string of "suggestion places to test" and what we've done here today, a
string of messages not related to Windows of any version.

Take care,

--
Don
"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."



"Paul E Collins" <find_my_real_address@CL4.org> wrote in message
news:d8ha7h$7f1$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> "Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote:
>
>> If the test message violates the "code" of the news group,
>> don't the messages that respond to them also commit the
>> same violation.
>
> Sure, but in the long run there will be fewer misplaced test messages if
> people are told where to post them instead.
>
> P.
>
>

[nancie]

I have to agree with you, Don. I'm just a non-technical lurker here and I
rarely ever make comments or ask questions but I personally dislike the
"other" discussions that frequent these groups; especially the foul language
flame wars. The "test" issue seems to be just plain silly since almost all
are small, inoffensive quick entries that harm no one. I would, instead,
wish that the ridiculous discussions, flames and foul language be excluded
and/or pursued in ng's where those who wish to continue their diatribes
could do so, without offending the folks that only want to get answers to
their questions.

The critics of "test" messages might also want to consider that possibly
the OP hasn't a clue that there is a "proper" place to try their test, and
whether an admonishment is intended or not, any comment that makes the OP
feel chastised is not helpful in any way. I certainly didn't understand
when I first found out about newsgroups and then I lurked for months before
I began to comprehend all the unwritten rules. I didn't even know what a
newsgroup was until I followed a link from Microsoft and landed here. There
was certainly no warning from Microsoft that there were "rules" to be
followed before I could dare to ask my question. I eventually learned about
how many THOUSANDS of newsgroups were available, and believe me, I never
would have dreamed that there were designated places to try a simple test
message.

Now, back to our regular programming...............hopefully it will be on
topic and inoffensive!


"Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote in message
news:11aog6vgivp6oe0@corp.supernews.com...
> Rick, Paul,
>
> My contention is doing a test is a lesser violation than some of the
> language, or requests of other programs or a thread that goes on forever
> that goes into topics that aren't even close to computers....
> restaurants, clothes, vacations and on and on and on.
>
> Also doing a test in the test ng doesn't mean it's a sure thing connection
> can be made in the group of interest.
>
> And, if test messages were just ignored as most of them wish, there
> wouldn't be a string of "suggestion places to test" and what we've done
> here today, a string of messages not related to Windows of any version.
>
> Take care,
>
> --
> Don
> "Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
>
>
>
> "Paul E Collins" <find_my_real_address@CL4.org> wrote in message
> news:d8ha7h$7f1$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> "Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote:
>>
>>> If the test message violates the "code" of the news group,
>>> don't the messages that respond to them also commit the
>>> same violation.
>>
>> Sure, but in the long run there will be fewer misplaced test messages if
>> people are told where to post them instead.
>>
>> P.
>>
>>
>
>

[Alan Smith]

Possibly. But those who mispost a test tend to be more reasonable than those
who have already demonstrated unreasonable/unsocial behaviour. Telling them
anything tends to bring tirades of abuse so the killfile tactic is better
than responding to them.


"Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote in message
news:11aog6vgivp6oe0@corp.supernews.com...
> Rick, Paul,
>
> My contention is doing a test is a lesser violation than some of the
> language, or requests of other programs or a thread that goes on forever
> that goes into topics that aren't even close to computers....
> restaurants, clothes, vacations and on and on and on.
>
> Also doing a test in the test ng doesn't mean it's a sure thing connection
> can be made in the group of interest.
>
> And, if test messages were just ignored as most of them wish, there
> wouldn't be a string of "suggestion places to test" and what we've done
> here today, a string of messages not related to Windows of any version.
>
> Take care,
>
> --
> Don
> "Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."
>
>
>
> "Paul E Collins" <find_my_real_address@CL4.org> wrote in message
> news:d8ha7h$7f1$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> "Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote:
>>
>>> If the test message violates the "code" of the news group,
>>> don't the messages that respond to them also commit the
>>> same violation.
>>
>> Sure, but in the long run there will be fewer misplaced test messages if
>> people are told where to post them instead.
>>
>> P.
>>
>>
>
>

[Paul E Collins]

"nancie" <anon@nospam.com> wrote:

> The "test" issue seems to be just plain silly since almost
> all are small, inoffensive quick entries that harm no one.

Off-topic threads are poor etiquette not because they are necessarily
offensive or foul-mouthed, but because people who read the group (and
possibly dozens of other groups) have to spend time filtering them
out. It's mainly the principle of the thing, I suppose, since
downloading a bunch of extra messages doesn't add to the phone bill
like it used to.

> The critics of "test" messages might also want to consider
> that possibly the OP hasn't a clue that there is a "proper"
> place to try their test,

That's precisely why people tell them about it.

> and [...] any comment that makes the OP feel chastised is
> not helpful in any way.

I don't see how anyone could interpret a polite "please use the test
groups in the future" as chastisement!

> Now, back to our regular programming...............

Please take programming discussion to
microsoft.public.dotnet.languages. Heh, just kidding.

I'll stop prolonging this thread now!

P.

[Ken Blake]

In news:11aog6vgivp6oe0@corp.supernews.com,
Don Schmidt <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> typed:

> My contention is doing a test is a lesser violation than some
> of the
> language, or requests of other programs or a thread that goes
> on
> forever that goes into topics that aren't even close to
> computers....
> restaurants, clothes, vacations and on and on and on.


Don, you're absolutely right, as far as I'm concerned.
Nevertheless, these are two different situations, and shouldn't
be dealt with the same way.

Most people who post test messages here do so simply because they
are unaware that it's inappropriate. A polite message telling
them that serves to educate them, and they are then unlikely to
do it again. Also others seeing the message asking not to post
test messages here also get educated. These make it a service
both the test poster and to the denizens of the newsgroup in
general.

But in contrast to that, most of the other off-topic
postings--the "Windows Sux" messages, the Linux zealots or
Macintosh zealots promoting their case, the religious arguments,
the political arguments, the out-and-out trolling, and on and
on--are made by people who already know that what they are doing
is inappropriate; they do it anyway. Complaining to them about it
does no good at all, and is likely to accomplish nothing but
spawn long boring off-topic threads.

As has often been said, the best way to deal with a troll is to
ignore him. Ignore him and he'll get bored and go away. Argue
with him, and you're just adding fuel to the fire. The same is
rarely true of those who post test messages.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

[Don Schmidt]

I see your point Ken but it somehow is like stopping the guy for doing 46 in
a 45 zone while delivering serum to the village and ignoring the guy doing
65 in a 30 zone on the way to the local bar.

--
Don
"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps."



"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:ebAvbk4bFHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> In news:11aog6vgivp6oe0@corp.supernews.com,
> Don Schmidt <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> typed:
>
>> My contention is doing a test is a lesser violation than some of the
>> language, or requests of other programs or a thread that goes on
>> forever that goes into topics that aren't even close to computers....
>> restaurants, clothes, vacations and on and on and on.
>
>
> Don, you're absolutely right, as far as I'm concerned. Nevertheless, these
> are two different situations, and shouldn't be dealt with the same way.
>
> Most people who post test messages here do so simply because they are
> unaware that it's inappropriate. A polite message telling them that serves
> to educate them, and they are then unlikely to do it again. Also others
> seeing the message asking not to post test messages here also get
> educated. These make it a service both the test poster and to the denizens
> of the newsgroup in general.
>
> But in contrast to that, most of the other off-topic postings--the
> "Windows Sux" messages, the Linux zealots or Macintosh zealots promoting
> their case, the religious arguments, the political arguments, the
> out-and-out trolling, and on and on--are made by people who already know
> that what they are doing is inappropriate; they do it anyway. Complaining
> to them about it does no good at all, and is likely to accomplish nothing
> but spawn long boring off-topic threads.
>
> As has often been said, the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore
> him. Ignore him and he'll get bored and go away. Argue with him, and
> you're just adding fuel to the fire. The same is rarely true of those who
> post test messages.
>
> --
> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> Please reply to the newsgroup
>
>

[Ken Blake]

In news:11apou0d86r40a1@corp.supernews.com,
Don Schmidt <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> typed:

> I see your point Ken but it somehow is like stopping the guy
> for
> doing 46 in a 45 zone while delivering serum to the village and
> ignoring the guy doing 65 in a 30 zone on the way to the local
> bar.


I'm not sure what I can say that I haven't already said already,
and I don't want to repeat myself. But
I'll make one more response to what you've said and then I'm done
with the thread: politely suggesting to someone that he not post
test messages here is not "like stopping the guy for doing 46 in
a 45 zone." I don't want to give him a ticket at all, and all I
recommend is that the situation be explained *politely*. It's
certainly true that not everyone who responds to a test message
does it politely, and if it's done rudely, I'm with you in
thinking that it's completely inappropriate.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup




> "Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:ebAvbk4bFHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> In news:11aog6vgivp6oe0@corp.supernews.com,
>> Don Schmidt <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> typed:
>>
>>> My contention is doing a test is a lesser violation than some
>>> of the
>>> language, or requests of other programs or a thread that goes
>>> on
>>> forever that goes into topics that aren't even close to
>>> computers.... restaurants, clothes, vacations and on and on
>>> and on.
>>
>>
>> Don, you're absolutely right, as far as I'm concerned.
>> Nevertheless,
>> these are two different situations, and shouldn't be dealt
>> with the
>> same way. Most people who post test messages here do so simply
>> because they are
>> unaware that it's inappropriate. A polite message telling them
>> that
>> serves to educate them, and they are then unlikely to do it
>> again.
>> Also others seeing the message asking not to post test
>> messages here
>> also get educated. These make it a service both the test
>> poster and
>> to the denizens of the newsgroup in general.
>>
>> But in contrast to that, most of the other off-topic
>> postings--the
>> "Windows Sux" messages, the Linux zealots or Macintosh zealots
>> promoting their case, the religious arguments, the political
>> arguments, the out-and-out trolling, and on and on--are made
>> by
>> people who already know that what they are doing is
>> inappropriate;
>> they do it anyway. Complaining to them about it does no good
>> at all,
>> and is likely to accomplish nothing but spawn long boring
>> off-topic
>> threads. As has often been said, the best way to deal with a
>> troll is to
>> ignore him. Ignore him and he'll get bored and go away. Argue
>> with
>> him, and you're just adding fuel to the fire. The same is
>> rarely
>> true of those who post test messages.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
>> Please reply to the newsgroup