DELL goes down hill.



Richard Goh
07-09-2005, 11:43 PM
New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the hidden
partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given other
directions.

Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers. I
know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.

R. McCarty
07-09-2005, 11:43 PM
I've setup 2 new Dimensions recently & neither came with the XP
Disk, just the recovery partition. In both cases I imaged the recovery
but didn't step through the process to see what it's contents where.
Dell's still ship with way too much "Clutter & Fluff", Interestingly
one Dimension shipped with McAfee and the other Symantec trial
versions. Still takes about an hour to "De-Dell-ify" them as AOL still
comes pre-installed.

"Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:ubJhp3TYFHA.1412@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the
> hidden partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given
> other directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers.
> I know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>

Sharon F
07-09-2005, 11:43 PM
On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:24:56 -0700, Richard Goh wrote:

> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the hidden
> partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given other
> directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers. I
> know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.

What you get for restore/repair seems to vary by the package. Some setups
will still include the CDs. Others do not. I, also, hope that Dell doesn't
do away with them completely.
--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

GTS
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
This has been a heated topic in alt.sys.pc-clone.dell It is somewhat off
topic here, but probably of fairly wide interest.
The fact that Dell was one of the few providing a comprehensive set of
media was a factor in my purchasing and recommendations also.

Allegedly, new Dells have a one time mechanism to burn an OS CD. Many have
reported that this was either missing or dysfunctional. It's interesting
that the Dell tech you talked to didn't mention it at all.
How Do I Create My Operating System CD using the Dell OS Recovery Utility?
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?dn=1091713&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

The Crtl-F11 is a destructive reinstall that restores from a Ghost image
from a hidden partition.
See
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?dn=1090151


--

"Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:ubJhp3TYFHA.1412@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the
> hidden partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given
> other directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers.
> I know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>

GTS
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
"Sharon F" <sharonfDEL@ETEmvps.org> wrote in message
news:e5LUBAUYFHA.2948@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:24:56 -0700, Richard Goh wrote:
>
>
> What you get for restore/repair seems to vary by the package. Some setups
> will still include the CDs. Others do not. I, also, hope that Dell doesn't
> do away with them completely.
> --
> Sharon F
> MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

Sharon,

I've seen some mention of a distinction between machines ordered under the
home or business options re. what's included, but it all seems to be
inconsistent and a source of considerable confusion right now.
--

uggabugga
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
IBM machines have the same feature. It works and completely formats the
drive. I'd just like to know what happens when the installation partition
gets corrupted. I supposed this is all an effort to save the 2 cents on
giving you the CDs.
--
That's just like my opinion, Man........


"Richard Goh" wrote:

> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the hidden
> partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given other
> directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers. I
> know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>
>
>

BigJim
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
If you purchase a new Dell you can create a XP Disk. It permits the owner to
make ONE what they call a backup restore disk. It is a full blown xp
installation disk. Now you may need to download some drivers for your
machine for the Dell site.

Look for, make restore cd, under, START, All Programs,it is in one of the
dell headers in the program window. What I don't understand is why the
support person never told you this? BTW, I just purchased a new 600m within
the last two months and when it did not have the xp OS disk I called and
asked for it from Dell, they sent it to me in a couple of days.



"Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:ubJhp3TYFHA.1412@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the
> hidden partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given
> other directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers.
> I know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>

Al Smith
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
> Allegedly, new Dells have a one time mechanism to burn an OS CD. Many have
> reported that this was either missing or dysfunctional. It's interesting
> that the Dell tech you talked to didn't mention it at all.
> How Do I Create My Operating System CD using the Dell OS Recovery Utility?
> http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?dn=1091713&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19
>
> The Crtl-F11 is a destructive reinstall that restores from a Ghost image
> from a hidden partition.

And the hidden partition takes up space on your hard drive that
you bought and paid for, when you bought the Dell computer, adding
injury to insult.

Bob I
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Al Smith wrote:

>
> And the hidden partition takes up space on your hard drive that you
> bought and paid for, when you bought the Dell computer, adding injury to
> insult.

For $299 you are going to pay, one way or the other.

guestfromhell
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
(i did mean the CD key of YOUR machine btw............its on the side of
the machine)


--
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.iamnotageek.com/showthread.php?t=1819075273

guestfromhell
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Dells come with a subdir called \drivers on the root of C; which should
have all the drivers for that model.

Since the XP CD is licence independant, then a copy of ANYONE's XP CD
should suffice. You just need to make note of the key. Except if its
Home, then registering it can be fun. But theres othere threads on here
that show you how to get round that problem.


--
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.iamnotageek.com/showthread.php?t=1819075273

Rock
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
guestfromhell wrote:

> Dells come with a subdir called \drivers on the root of C; which should
> have all the drivers for that model.
>
> Since the XP CD is licence independant, then a copy of ANYONE's XP CD
> should suffice. You just need to make note of the key. Except if its
> Home, then registering it can be fun. But theres othere threads on here
> that show you how to get round that problem.
>
>

Not necessarily true. A retail CD will not work with the Dell OEM XP
key. You must match similar products. Also registration is an optional
issue for either Pro or Home and not needed. Activation is a different
issue and is the same for both versions, but with Dells as with other
major OEMs, they are BIOS locked so activation is not needed.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Ron Martell
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
"Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote:

>New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
>disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
>the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
>melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
>Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
>discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
>is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the hidden
>partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given other
>directions.
>
>Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
>they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers. I
>know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>

One of my clients just had a real horror story with a new Dell system.

The machine arrived DOA - hard drive going click - click - click -
click. Dell Customer Care sent him a new hard drive - not a
replacement system, just the hard drive. It arrived with no
preinstalled Windows image and with no install CD the machine was
still totally useless. Second call to Customer Care resulted in a set
of Windows install CDs.

5 days after arrival (and $200 of my time later) the new machine was
finally usable.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

Steve N.
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Richard Goh wrote:

> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the hidden
> partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given other
> directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers. I
> know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>
>

A dell, by definition, is already downhill.

Stevve

PA Bear
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
From my Dell Support contact:

<QP>
Dell PC Restore is by Symantec. It is just like Norton Ghost. Puts the
system back to the XP OOBE. We don't ship the XP CD with consumer
systems any more because we found through customer research that
something like 71% of all customers state they never use the CD.

If a customer wants an XP, Dell Drivers and Utilities, and the Tools and
Applications CD, all they have to do is call tech support and say so.
The CDs [will] be shipped no questions asked.
</QP>
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security


Richard Goh wrote:
> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the
> hidden partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given
> other directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers. I
> know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.

Ron Martell
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote:

>From my Dell Support contact:
>
><QP>
>Dell PC Restore is by Symantec. It is just like Norton Ghost. Puts the
>system back to the XP OOBE. We don't ship the XP CD with consumer
>systems any more because we found through customer research that
>something like 71% of all customers state they never use the CD.
>
>If a customer wants an XP, Dell Drivers and Utilities, and the Tools and
>Applications CD, all they have to do is call tech support and say so.
>The CDs [will] be shipped no questions asked.
></QP>

Thanks.

Can that option be specified at the time of the original order?


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

Miss Perspicacia Tick
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Ron Martell wrote:
> "Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a
>> paper disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC
>> Restore by reading the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore
>> will not fix a major melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even
>> mention how to do a DELL PC Restore. I have read the manual from
>> front to back. After a heated discussion with a Dell Tech, she
>> finally asked someone else and the answer is "Press Ctrl+F11 during
>> the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the hidden partition on the
>> hard drive". I assume then you will be given other directions.
>>
>> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some
>> complaints or they will be gone down the same path as HP and other
>> cut-rate suppliers. I know that my recommendations to buy DELL have
>> now been tempered.
>>
>
> One of my clients just had a real horror story with a new Dell system.
>
> The machine arrived DOA - hard drive going click - click - click -
> click. Dell Customer Care sent him a new hard drive - not a
> replacement system, just the hard drive. It arrived with no
> preinstalled Windows image and with no install CD the machine was
> still totally useless. Second call to Customer Care resulted in a set
> of Windows install CDs.
>
> 5 days after arrival (and $200 of my time later) the new machine was
> finally usable.
>
>
> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

Completely off the subject, but at least Dell knew what DOA meant. I bought
a new monitor last week from LaCie which was also DOA. I spoke to the
reseller and they contated their man at LaCie. The next day I received a
copy of an email LaCie TS had sent to my reseller's rep with something
addressed to me.

The first line of my part of the email was "Could you please tell me exactly
what the fault is with your monitor?" This was after the rep had informed TS
that it was DOA!

Not quite sure what else DOA could mean, but still...


--
In memory of MS MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/

PA Bear
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Ron Martell wrote:
> "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From my Dell Support contact:
> >
> > <QP>
> > Dell PC Restore is by Symantec. It is just like Norton Ghost. Puts the
> > system back to the XP OOBE. We don't ship the XP CD with consumer
> > systems any more because we found through customer research that
> > something like 71% of all customers state they never use the CD.
> >
> > If a customer wants an XP, Dell Drivers and Utilities, and the Tools and
> > Applications CD, all they have to do is call tech support and say so.
> > The CDs [will] be shipped no questions asked.
> > </QP>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Can that option be specified at the time of the original order?

Surely it wouldn't hurt to ask, Ron.
--
~PA Bear

CC: BillB

Locke
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
I have never appreciated the Restore CD's. I wish they would go through the
trouble of just providing a software disc instead - my HP is just a restore
disc and partition.

Locke

"Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:ubJhp3TYFHA.1412@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
> disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
> the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix a major
> melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to do a DELL PC
> Restore. I have read the manual from front to back. After a heated
> discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone else and the answer
> is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you will be taken to the
> hidden partition on the hard drive". I assume then you will be given
> other directions.
>
> Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints or
> they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate suppliers.
> I know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been tempered.
>

PA Bear
07-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Would you be willing to pay $100 or more for this?

Locke wrote:
> I have never appreciated the Restore CD's. I wish they would go through
> the trouble of just providing a software disc instead - my HP is just a
> restore disc and partition.
>
> Locke
>
> "Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:ubJhp3TYFHA.1412@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a
> > paper disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore
> > by reading the on-disk manual. Of course Windows Restore will not fix
> > a major melt-down and the on-disk manual does not even mention how to
> > do a DELL PC Restore. I have read the manual from front to back.
> > After a heated discussion with a Dell Tech, she finally asked someone
> > else and the answer is "Press Ctrl+F11 during the Dell Logo" and you
> > will be taken to the hidden partition on the hard drive". I assume
> > then you will be given other directions.
> >
> > Has anyone actually tried this? Sound like Dell needs some complaints
> > or they will be gone down the same path as HP and other cut-rate
> > suppliers. I know that my recommendations to buy DELL have now been
> > tempered.

Plato
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Richard Goh wrote:
>
> New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper

You get what you pay for.








--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

Plato
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Locke wrote:
>
> I have never appreciated the Restore CD's. I wish they would go through the
> trouble of just providing a software disc instead - my HP is just a restore
> disc and partition.

You get what you pay for.






--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

Li'l Roberto
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
"Bob I" <birelan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OktXj3UYFHA.160@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Al Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> And the hidden partition takes up space on your hard drive that you
>> bought and paid for, when you bought the Dell computer, adding injury to
>> insult.
>
> For $299 you are going to pay, one way or the other.

Bob
you obviously a man of few words, but I couldn't have put it
better myself

rgds
Li'l Roberto

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
PA Bear wrote:
> Would you be willing to pay $100 or more for this?

Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the different
restore image scenarios?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Shooter
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:47:51 -0400, "kurttrail"
<dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:

>Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the different
>restore image scenarios?

Remember, he's talking about Dell here. Just like with HP, Gateway,
Compaq and all the other fake computer companies that actually buy
boxes slopped together in Thailand who put the Logo of the American
company on the boxes that are pretending to be the box builder, they
don't have the ability to make CD's much less anything else beside run
a sales office to sell Taiwanese boxes with their name stamped on
them. It probably would cost Dell $100 to come up with such a CD.

I remember back in the mid 90's when Gateway actually built computers
and actually had people working stateside that were called "support",
they shipped a restoration CD and an OEM/OS CD along with a bunch of
other stuff with each systems. Of course and like all the other
conglomerates, they all stopped making PCs around the turn of the
century, around the same time they outsourced everything but their
sales offices to third world, low labor, dirt spots.

They were talking on the evening news, the financial part of the news,
about some company that has set up shop in Mexico where ALL these
American conglomerates, they ones that buy slopped together Taiwanese
boxes with their American names stamped on them, have contracted to
send their North American repair returns to for refurbishing or
fixing. They all use the same out of country facility for repairs.

These are reasons why, since 1999, I have started giving my business
to Reputable local White Box builders. I get restoration CD's, OS
Cd's (my choice of OEM or full retail), CD's that came with each
specific part of the computer and a local friendly face for support
(usually the same guy that actually built the computer) and not some
dingbat from half way around the world that can't speak the same
language and reads canned support messages off a monitor. Didn't
someone say that MS was also going to send its support to these third
world countries?

Regards,

Box134
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
What does "contated" mean? Learn how to make good posts and proper spelling
of the English language before attempting another message.

"Miss Perspicacia Tick" <test@test.com> wrote in message
news:prale.1167$C72.1158@fe06.highwinds-media.phx...
>> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
>
> Completely off the subject, but at least Dell knew what DOA meant. I
> bought a new monitor last week from LaCie which was also DOA. I spoke to
> the reseller and they contated their man at LaCie. The next day I received
> a copy of an email LaCie TS had sent to my reseller's rep with something
> addressed to me.
>

Locke
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
It is all due to Wal-Mart and the need for lower prices and lower costs.
You cant just say that they are doing it to screw us - they are doing it to
stay in business whether we like it or not.

--
Locke
Replace NOT_com_THIS_TIME with .com to reply


"Shooter" <fhasfdjh@AlkjdaF@com> wrote in message
news:5ajb915470tb6k8bsv6j97soh7rpaunqpf@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:47:51 -0400, "kurttrail"
> <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>>Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the different
>>restore image scenarios?
>
> Remember, he's talking about Dell here. Just like with HP, Gateway,
> Compaq and all the other fake computer companies that actually buy
> boxes slopped together in Thailand who put the Logo of the American
> company on the boxes that are pretending to be the box builder, they
> don't have the ability to make CD's much less anything else beside run
> a sales office to sell Taiwanese boxes with their name stamped on
> them. It probably would cost Dell $100 to come up with such a CD.
>
> I remember back in the mid 90's when Gateway actually built computers
> and actually had people working stateside that were called "support",
> they shipped a restoration CD and an OEM/OS CD along with a bunch of
> other stuff with each systems. Of course and like all the other
> conglomerates, they all stopped making PCs around the turn of the
> century, around the same time they outsourced everything but their
> sales offices to third world, low labor, dirt spots.
>
> They were talking on the evening news, the financial part of the news,
> about some company that has set up shop in Mexico where ALL these
> American conglomerates, they ones that buy slopped together Taiwanese
> boxes with their American names stamped on them, have contracted to
> send their North American repair returns to for refurbishing or
> fixing. They all use the same out of country facility for repairs.
>
> These are reasons why, since 1999, I have started giving my business
> to Reputable local White Box builders. I get restoration CD's, OS
> Cd's (my choice of OEM or full retail), CD's that came with each
> specific part of the computer and a local friendly face for support
> (usually the same guy that actually built the computer) and not some
> dingbat from half way around the world that can't speak the same
> language and reads canned support messages off a monitor. Didn't
> someone say that MS was also going to send its support to these third
> world countries?
>
> Regards,

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Shooter wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:47:51 -0400, "kurttrail"
> <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>> Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the
>> different restore image scenarios?
>
> Remember, he's talking about Dell here. Just like with HP, Gateway,
> Compaq and all the other fake computer companies that actually buy
> boxes slopped together in Thailand who put the Logo of the American
> company on the boxes that are pretending to be the box builder, they
> don't have the ability to make CD's much less anything else beside run
> a sales office to sell Taiwanese boxes with their name stamped on
> them. It probably would cost Dell $100 to come up with such a CD.
>
> I remember back in the mid 90's when Gateway actually built computers
> and actually had people working stateside that were called "support",
> they shipped a restoration CD and an OEM/OS CD along with a bunch of
> other stuff with each systems. Of course and like all the other
> conglomerates, they all stopped making PCs around the turn of the
> century, around the same time they outsourced everything but their
> sales offices to third world, low labor, dirt spots.
>
> They were talking on the evening news, the financial part of the news,
> about some company that has set up shop in Mexico where ALL these
> American conglomerates, they ones that buy slopped together Taiwanese
> boxes with their American names stamped on them, have contracted to
> send their North American repair returns to for refurbishing or
> fixing. They all use the same out of country facility for repairs.
>
> These are reasons why, since 1999, I have started giving my business
> to Reputable local White Box builders. I get restoration CD's, OS
> Cd's (my choice of OEM or full retail), CD's that came with each
> specific part of the computer and a local friendly face for support
> (usually the same guy that actually built the computer) and not some
> dingbat from half way around the world that can't speak the same
> language and reads canned support messages off a monitor. Didn't
> someone say that MS was also going to send its support to these third
> world countries?
>
> Regards,

There is still no way that printing up a CD cost Dell $100 per CD, more
like 10 cents.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Ron Martell
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:

>PA Bear wrote:
>> Would you be willing to pay $100 or more for this?
>
>Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the different
>restore image scenarios?

There are several reasons for supply a restore image rather than an
installation CD.

1. Simplified technical support. Something on the order of 99 and
44/100% of tech support calls are caused by something the purchaser
did to the computer. By restoring the computer to "factory fresh"
status all of non-warranty causes such as virus/spyware infestations,
wonky software installed by the user, defective device drivers for
accessories added by the user, and so forth can be eliminated. If the
computer works properly with the "factory fresh" install then the
problem, insofar as the manufacturer is concerned, has been solved.

2. Reduction of casual piracy. The restore images are customized to
the hardware in the specific PC and therefore cannot be used on a
different brand of computer.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Ron Martell wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>> PA Bear wrote:
>>> Would you be willing to pay $100 or more for this?
>>
>> Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the
>> different restore image scenarios?
>
> There are several reasons for supply a restore image rather than an
> installation CD.
>
> 1. Simplified technical support. Something on the order of 99 and
> 44/100% of tech support calls are caused by something the purchaser
> did to the computer. By restoring the computer to "factory fresh"
> status all of non-warranty causes such as virus/spyware infestations,
> wonky software installed by the user, defective device drivers for
> accessories added by the user, and so forth can be eliminated. If the
> computer works properly with the "factory fresh" install then the
> problem, insofar as the manufacturer is concerned, has been solved.
>
> 2. Reduction of casual piracy. The restore images are customized to
> the hardware in the specific PC and therefore cannot be used on a
> different brand of computer.

Yeah, I know the excuses, but they have nothing to do with the cost of
providing a reinstall CD to the customer, and NO WAY is it worth $100
dollars more on the cost of the PC.

Dell, until this year has been providing reinstall CDs, so #2 has little
to do with it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Ron Martell
07-09-2005, 11:45 PM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:


>
>Yeah, I know the excuses, but they have nothing to do with the cost of
>providing a reinstall CD to the customer, and NO WAY is it worth $100
>dollars more on the cost of the PC.
>
>Dell, until this year has been providing reinstall CDs, so #2 has little
>to do with it.

I know that Microsoft has pressured the major OEMs to move to using
recovery images rather than full install CDs; and also to use the SLP
(= BIOS Lock) to make these systems self-activating. I do not know
the details as to why Microsoft prefers that the OEMs distribute
Windows that way.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
Ron Martell wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Yeah, I know the excuses, but they have nothing to do with the cost
>> of providing a reinstall CD to the customer, and NO WAY is it worth
>> $100 dollars more on the cost of the PC.
>>
>> Dell, until this year has been providing reinstall CDs, so #2 has
>> little to do with it.
>
> I know that Microsoft has pressured the major OEMs to move to using
> recovery images rather than full install CDs; and also to use the SLP
> (= BIOS Lock) to make these systems self-activating. I do not know
> the details as to why Microsoft prefers that the OEMs distribute
> Windows that way.

And that is the reason I suspected. It is MS that is main culprit in
this, not the OEMs.

And by pressure, what kind of pressure?


--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Plato
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
Locke wrote:
>
> It is all due to Wal-Mart and the need for lower prices and lower costs.
> You cant just say that they are doing it to screw us - they are doing it to
> stay in business whether we like it or not.

Well a business has to cater to its customers and/or what potential new
customers are demanding. If it's customers want low priced PCs then in
order to stay in business one has to provide them to their customer
base. If Business X doesn't do it then Business Y will take the
customers AND the new business.

Plato
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
Shooter wrote:
>
> language and reads canned support messages off a monitor. Didn't
> someone say that MS was also going to send its support to these third
> world countries?

You're living in the past. So is anybody else who doesn't understand
that all the world economies and labor resources are interrelated now.
Americans stand at a disadvantage as we're only taught a single language
in public schools.







--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

Ron Martell
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:


>
>And that is the reason I suspected. It is MS that is main culprit in
>this, not the OEMs.
>
>And by pressure, what kind of pressure?

I have no idea what sort of pressure, but I would imagine that a
pricing pressure, such as a reduction of even $1 in the license fee
for going to "BIOS Locked" with recovery disks/partitions would be
enough.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

NotMe
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
I understood it was because of court rulings that MS is trying to make the
price difference between an OEM and Retail CD mean something.
We have 200 Dell systems; the older ones all came with a 'real' Windows CD.
The new ones come with a recovery CD.
I don't like that, but with almost all OEMs doing it, there isn't much
choice.
--
A Professional Amatuer...If anyone knew it all, none of would be here!

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:Od2oqxhYFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Ron Martell wrote:
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>>
>>> PA Bear wrote:
>>>> Would you be willing to pay $100 or more for this?
>>>
>>> Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the
>>> different restore image scenarios?
>>
>> There are several reasons for supply a restore image rather than an
>> installation CD.
>>
>> 1. Simplified technical support. Something on the order of 99 and
>> 44/100% of tech support calls are caused by something the purchaser
>> did to the computer. By restoring the computer to "factory fresh"
>> status all of non-warranty causes such as virus/spyware infestations,
>> wonky software installed by the user, defective device drivers for
>> accessories added by the user, and so forth can be eliminated. If the
>> computer works properly with the "factory fresh" install then the
>> problem, insofar as the manufacturer is concerned, has been solved.
>>
>> 2. Reduction of casual piracy. The restore images are customized to
>> the hardware in the specific PC and therefore cannot be used on a
>> different brand of computer.
>
> Yeah, I know the excuses, but they have nothing to do with the cost of
> providing a reinstall CD to the customer, and NO WAY is it worth $100
> dollars more on the cost of the PC.
>
> Dell, until this year has been providing reinstall CDs, so #2 has little
> to do with it.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>

Ron Martell
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
"NotMe" <cargod01@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I understood it was because of court rulings that MS is trying to make the
>price difference between an OEM and Retail CD mean something.
>We have 200 Dell systems; the older ones all came with a 'real' Windows CD.
>The new ones come with a recovery CD.
>I don't like that, but with almost all OEMs doing it, there isn't much
>choice.


One of the real problems with these Recovery CDs is that with most of
them there is no way to boot to the Windows XP Recovery Console.

If the machine has a 3.5 diskette drive then you can download the boot
diskette set images from Microsoft, create the diskettes and boot with
them to run Recovery Console commands. But with so many new
computers not having 3.5 drives that is often not an option.

What this means is that an easily repairable error, such as
UNMOUNTABLE_BOOT_VOLUME caused by a corrupted data structure on the
hard drive, now necessitates a total wipeout and reload in order to
get the machine back running. (the normal procedure for the above
error is to boot to recovery console and run CHKDSK /R).

I have encountered this specific situation several times in recent
months, Fortunately I have a bootable CD (Bart's PE Builder) in my
toolbag which I can use to run CHKDSK and rescue the system.

Note that not all UNMOUNTABLE_BOOT_VOLUME errors are fixable with
CHKDSK /R - just those where the second parameter is 0xC0000032
indicating a file system problem. But that is the most common
situation.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

guestfromhell
07-09-2005, 11:47 PM
Rock Wrote:
> guestfromhell wrote:
>
> > Dells come with a subdir called \drivers on the root of C; which
> should
> > have all the drivers for that model.
> >
> > Since the XP CD is licence independant, then a copy of ANYONE's XP CD
> > should suffice. You just need to make note of the key. Except if its
> > Home, then registering it can be fun. But theres othere threads on
> here
> > that show you how to get round that problem.
> >
> >
>
> Not necessarily true. A retail CD will not work with the Dell OEM XP
> key. You must match similar products. Also registration is an
> optional
> issue for either Pro or Home and not needed. Activation is a different
> issue and is the same for both versions, but with Dells as with other
> major OEMs, they are BIOS locked so activation is not needed.
>
> --
> Rock
> MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Hmm.........I dont really get enthusiastic about Bill Gates plan to
own all the money in the world either.......as long as your running the
version you bought to be legal and you can prove it, what does it matter
which key you use?


--
guestfromhell
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.iamnotageek.com/showthread.php?t=1819075273

guestfromhell
07-09-2005, 11:47 PM
yes theres a big difference between reimaging it from an image and
reinstalling from a cd. Better to use an image, as all the messing
about has been doen for you. If you've got to tell a computer
illiterate how to get his pc working again, easier just to explain to
him 'Press alt and f11 at the Dell logo' than spend 2 hours walking
them through a cd installation.

Common sense to me.........


--
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rock
07-09-2005, 11:47 PM
guestfromhell wrote:

> Hmm.........I dont really get enthusiastic about Bill Gates plan to
> own all the money in the world either.......as long as your running the
> version you bought to be legal and you can prove it, what does it matter
> which key you use?

I'm not really sure what you are saying, but the point I was making is
that it won't work, i.e. it will not install, if the key and
installation CD are not the same type. Any retail Pro installation CD
will work with any retail Pro license key but will not work with a Home
retail license key or an OEM Pro license key, etc.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Paul Knudsen
07-09-2005, 11:50 PM
On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:24:56 -0700, "Richard Goh" <me@mailinator.com>
wrote:

>New Dell computers no longer come with a Windows XP disk. You get a paper
>disk that states you can use Windows Restore or DELL PC Restore by reading
>the on-disk manual.

I understand you can get the CD from Dell by simply asking for it.
--
Top 10 Conservative Idiots:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/

Les Herrman
07-09-2005, 11:57 PM
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:01:00 -0700, Paul Knudsen
<bigkahuna@jupada.com> wrote:

>I understand you can get the CD from Dell by simply asking for it.

If you want to pay for it. I asked for the OS CD for my laptop. They
said yes...sent me the OS, Apps, And Drivers CD for it and charged me
$27 for it.

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:57 PM
Les Herrman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:01:00 -0700, Paul Knudsen
> <bigkahuna@jupada.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand you can get the CD from Dell by simply asking for it.
>
> If you want to pay for it. I asked for the OS CD for my laptop. They
> said yes...sent me the OS, Apps, And Drivers CD for it and charged me
> $27 for it.

Was this before or after you bought the system?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Les Herrman
07-09-2005, 11:57 PM
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:47:37 -0400, "kurttrail"
<dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:

>Les Herrman wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:01:00 -0700, Paul Knudsen
>> <bigkahuna@jupada.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand you can get the CD from Dell by simply asking for it.
>>
>> If you want to pay for it. I asked for the OS CD for my laptop. They
>> said yes...sent me the OS, Apps, And Drivers CD for it and charged me
>> $27 for it.
>
>Was this before or after you bought the system?

After. But only about 2 days after I got the laptop and found out
that Dell had the OS restore in a hidden partiton and no way to make
your own backup copy of it. So I called them and asked them why I
could not at least make a backup of it, they just said it was not
possible and that they usually do not send out the CD's but would send
them to me. Then they sent them and charged my Dell account $27 for
them.

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:57 PM
Les Herrman wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:47:37 -0400, "kurttrail"
> <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>> Les Herrman wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:01:00 -0700, Paul Knudsen
>>> <bigkahuna@jupada.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand you can get the CD from Dell by simply asking for it.
>>>
>>> If you want to pay for it. I asked for the OS CD for my laptop.
>>> They said yes...sent me the OS, Apps, And Drivers CD for it and
>>> charged me $27 for it.
>>
>> Was this before or after you bought the system?
>
> After. But only about 2 days after I got the laptop and found out
> that Dell had the OS restore in a hidden partiton and no way to make
> your own backup copy of it. So I called them and asked them why I
> could not at least make a backup of it, they just said it was not
> possible and that they usually do not send out the CD's but would send
> them to me. Then they sent them and charged my Dell account $27 for
> them.

The was you are explaining it sounds like they didn't inform you about
the charge when you requested the disks.

But next time make sure that you request the disks BEFORE purchase.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Mike Fields
07-09-2005, 11:58 PM
<Les Herrman> wrote in message
news:fas0a1lqdlkp1571mb29slntip09p8s3g5@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:47:37 -0400, "kurttrail"
> <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
> >Was this before or after you bought the system?
>
> After. But only about 2 days after I got the laptop and found out
> that Dell had the OS restore in a hidden partiton and no way to make
> your own backup copy of it. So I called them and asked them why I
> could not at least make a backup of it, they just said it was not
> possible and that they usually do not send out the CD's but would send
> them to me. Then they sent them and charged my Dell account $27 for
> them.

Not sure about the new systems, but my Dell had the same sort of
partition thing (a lot of them do) and while you can't get at the
partition from windows (at least not that I am aware of), Drive Image
had no problem seeing the partition and backing it up for me
(although now that Symantec took Drive Image over, maybe that is
broken ... ). I did get the CD with mine (I made sure to request it
as others had mentioned). Using Drive Image I did do a backup and
restore of both the windows and "hidden" partition onto a new drive
just to make sure I could do it. No problem, booted fine.

mikey

Paul Knudsen
07-10-2005, 12:01 AM
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:44:14 -0500, Les Herrman wrote:

>On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:01:00 -0700, Paul Knudsen
><bigkahuna@jupada.com> wrote:
>
>>I understand you can get the CD from Dell by simply asking for it.
>
>If you want to pay for it. I asked for the OS CD for my laptop. They
>said yes...sent me the OS, Apps, And Drivers CD for it and charged me
>$27 for it.

Sounds like a good bargain to me.
--
Top 10 Conservative Idiots:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/

PA Bear
07-10-2005, 12:04 AM
> <Les Herrman> wrote in message
> news:fas0a1lqdlkp1571mb29slntip09p8s3g5@4ax.com...
> > > Was this before or after you bought the system?
> >
> > After. But only about 2 days after I got the laptop and found out
> > that Dell had the OS restore in a hidden partiton and no way to make
> > your own backup copy of it. So I called them and asked them why I
> > could not at least make a backup of it, they just said it was not
> > possible and that they usually do not send out the CD's but would send
> > them to me. Then they sent them and charged my Dell account $27 for
> > them.

Quoting my anonymous Dell Support contact:
<QP>
> ...It's not a bill. It's an invoice. It's just an accounting
> representation of the dollar amount. Nowhere on that paper work does it
> say to send a check for $27...If it were a bill, it would
> have an [pre-]addressed return envelope.
</QP>

If your experience was otherwise, Les, please let us know.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security

Quest
07-10-2005, 12:32 AM
Shooter <fhasfdjh@AlkjdaF@com> wrote in
news:5ajb915470tb6k8bsv6j97soh7rpaunqpf@4ax.com:

Regarding Dell / MPC / and others that used to ship full version cd's

Blame Microsoft. The agreement they have with the OEMs is getting changed
and requiring them to use image restores and not include full version
disks. On some dell machines there is an option to request software. It
doesn't state clearly during the order process if a full version CD is
included for all software or not.

> On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:47:51 -0400, "kurttrail"
> <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>>Why? Why would it cost $100 more to supply a real CD over the different
>>restore image scenarios?
>


DELL goes down hill.