Explorer hangs with End Task on shut down



Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
XP Pro. SP2. My Shut Down problem only relates to Explorer. I know
similar issues have been mentioned in many previous threads. I have
tried every fix and web page suggested for finding fixes, even though
most didn't relate directly to Explorer. I raise the issue again in
the hope that some new reader or info has emerged.

I normally keep a folder of program shortcuts plus a two-pane Explorer
window open on my desktop. Whenever I try to Shut Down, I get messages
that Explorer is not closing, I see the moving bar, and I can press
End Task. I typically get this message 3-4 times. At least one time
I wont get the moving bar and I'll have to force close Explorer.

Note: I can ALWAYS avoid this problem if I close the two Explorer file
windows before I hit Shutdown. At the same time, I can leave as many
other programs running as I want (Internet Explorer, WordPerfect,
Outlook Express, etc.) and they will all close normally when I do the
Shut Down. I never had this problem before SP2, and I don't have it on
any of my other, similar SP2 machines.

Just to be clear about what I have done, the best site is
http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php, although I've looked at many
other and tried their suggestions as well. Recent tries included
unchecking "synchronize all offline files", I don't want to disable
all file shutdown, as it works correctly for everything but Explorer.

R. McCarty
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
To isolate the Explorer Window into it's own memory, Open
Explorer, Tools, Folder Options, View & Tic the option box
"Launch Folder Windows in a Separate Process". This will
increase system memory loading.

"Randy Brook" <randy1b@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fegv81dnp7rmpfkr5g36lmpjnnfl31va9e@4ax.com...
> XP Pro. SP2. My Shut Down problem only relates to Explorer. I know
> similar issues have been mentioned in many previous threads. I have
> tried every fix and web page suggested for finding fixes, even though
> most didn't relate directly to Explorer. I raise the issue again in
> the hope that some new reader or info has emerged.
>
> I normally keep a folder of program shortcuts plus a two-pane Explorer
> window open on my desktop. Whenever I try to Shut Down, I get messages
> that Explorer is not closing, I see the moving bar, and I can press
> End Task. I typically get this message 3-4 times. At least one time
> I wont get the moving bar and I'll have to force close Explorer.
>
> Note: I can ALWAYS avoid this problem if I close the two Explorer file
> windows before I hit Shutdown. At the same time, I can leave as many
> other programs running as I want (Internet Explorer, WordPerfect,
> Outlook Express, etc.) and they will all close normally when I do the
> Shut Down. I never had this problem before SP2, and I don't have it on
> any of my other, similar SP2 machines.
>
> Just to be clear about what I have done, the best site is
> http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php, although I've looked at many
> other and tried their suggestions as well. Recent tries included
> unchecking "synchronize all offline files", I don't want to disable
> all file shutdown, as it works correctly for everything but Explorer.

Rock
07-10-2005, 12:39 AM
Randy Brook wrote:

> XP Pro. SP2. My Shut Down problem only relates to Explorer. I know
> similar issues have been mentioned in many previous threads. I have
> tried every fix and web page suggested for finding fixes, even though
> most didn't relate directly to Explorer. I raise the issue again in
> the hope that some new reader or info has emerged.
>
> I normally keep a folder of program shortcuts plus a two-pane Explorer
> window open on my desktop. Whenever I try to Shut Down, I get messages
> that Explorer is not closing, I see the moving bar, and I can press
> End Task. I typically get this message 3-4 times. At least one time
> I wont get the moving bar and I'll have to force close Explorer.
>
> Note: I can ALWAYS avoid this problem if I close the two Explorer file
> windows before I hit Shutdown. At the same time, I can leave as many
> other programs running as I want (Internet Explorer, WordPerfect,
> Outlook Express, etc.) and they will all close normally when I do the
> Shut Down. I never had this problem before SP2, and I don't have it on
> any of my other, similar SP2 machines.
>
> Just to be clear about what I have done, the best site is
> http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php, although I've looked at many
> other and tried their suggestions as well. Recent tries included
> unchecking "synchronize all offline files", I don't want to disable
> all file shutdown, as it works correctly for everything but Explorer.

What happens in safe mode?

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:39 AM
I do not get the hang on Explorer in Safe Mode. This led me months ago
to run Msconfig and experiment for many hours with disabling various
startup programs and services. I was never able to isolate anything
that caused the problem of Explorer not shutting down automatically.
Of course, with nearly 90 services listed (but many of them I've set
not to run) and 25 programs running at startup according to Msconfig,
I could not possibly test all possible permutations.

Of course, I've done all the spyware testing, do frequent virus scans,
tried posting a log or two from HijackThis, etc.


On Sat, 21 May 2005 23:00:32 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>What happens in safe mode?

>Randy Brook wrote:
>
>> XP Pro. SP2. My Shut Down problem only relates to Explorer. I know
>> similar issues have been mentioned in many previous threads. I have
>> tried every fix and web page suggested for finding fixes, even though
>> most didn't relate directly to Explorer. I raise the issue again in
>> the hope that some new reader or info has emerged.
>>
>> I normally keep a folder of program shortcuts plus a two-pane Explorer
>> window open on my desktop. Whenever I try to Shut Down, I get messages
>> that Explorer is not closing, I see the moving bar, and I can press
>> End Task. I typically get this message 3-4 times. At least one time
>> I wont get the moving bar and I'll have to force close Explorer.
>>
>> Note: I can ALWAYS avoid this problem if I close the two Explorer file
>> windows before I hit Shutdown. At the same time, I can leave as many
>> other programs running as I want (Internet Explorer, WordPerfect,
>> Outlook Express, etc.) and they will all close normally when I do the
>> Shut Down. I never had this problem before SP2, and I don't have it on
>> any of my other, similar SP2 machines.
>>
>> Just to be clear about what I have done, the best site is
>> http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php, although I've looked at many
>> other and tried their suggestions as well. Recent tries included
>> unchecking "synchronize all offline files", I don't want to disable
>> all file shutdown, as it works correctly for everything but Explorer.

Rock
07-10-2005, 12:40 AM
Randy Brook wrote:
> I do not get the hang on Explorer in Safe Mode. This led me months ago
> to run Msconfig and experiment for many hours with disabling various
> startup programs and services. I was never able to isolate anything
> that caused the problem of Explorer not shutting down automatically.
> Of course, with nearly 90 services listed (but many of them I've set
> not to run) and 25 programs running at startup according to Msconfig,
> I could not possibly test all possible permutations.
>
> Of course, I've done all the spyware testing, do frequent virus scans,
> tried posting a log or two from HijackThis, etc.
>
>
> On Sat, 21 May 2005 23:00:32 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>What happens in safe mode?
>
>
>>Randy Brook wrote:
>>
>>
>>>XP Pro. SP2. My Shut Down problem only relates to Explorer. I know
>>>similar issues have been mentioned in many previous threads. I have
>>>tried every fix and web page suggested for finding fixes, even though
>>>most didn't relate directly to Explorer. I raise the issue again in
>>>the hope that some new reader or info has emerged.
>>>
>>>I normally keep a folder of program shortcuts plus a two-pane Explorer
>>>window open on my desktop. Whenever I try to Shut Down, I get messages
>>>that Explorer is not closing, I see the moving bar, and I can press
>>>End Task. I typically get this message 3-4 times. At least one time
>>>I wont get the moving bar and I'll have to force close Explorer.
>>>
>>>Note: I can ALWAYS avoid this problem if I close the two Explorer file
>>>windows before I hit Shutdown. At the same time, I can leave as many
>>>other programs running as I want (Internet Explorer, WordPerfect,
>>>Outlook Express, etc.) and they will all close normally when I do the
>>>Shut Down. I never had this problem before SP2, and I don't have it on
>>>any of my other, similar SP2 machines.
>>>
>>> Just to be clear about what I have done, the best site is
>>>http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php, although I've looked at many
>>>other and tried their suggestions as well. Recent tries included
>>>unchecking "synchronize all offline files", I don't want to disable
>>>all file shutdown, as it works correctly for everything but Explorer.
>
>


That it doesn't occur in safe mode indicates it's a driver, service or
software loading in normal mode that's the problem. Check for driver
updates for the video and audio system. In msconfig disable things
using the 1/2 principle. Disable 1/2 of them and see what happens. No
change, re-enable and disable the other 1/2. Once you identify which
half, then cut that in half again. For services do this first with the
non microsoft services. Keep in mind that disabling certain MS services
can cause windows not to boot. Make sure you are familiar with how to
start services using the recover console.

Another option is to use driver verifier. See this KB article:
How to Use Driver Verifier to Troubleshoot Windows Drivers
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=244617

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:40 AM
Doing by halves makes sense. However, I have not tried to restart
services using the recover console. However, I can always do a
rollback using a Ghost. copy of my boot partition if I really screw
things up.

MS publishes occasional updates for my Dell audio, so that isn't
likely a problem. But I could not find any updates for my video card
using the Radeon 7000 chipset. The one set I did find to download from
ATI really screwed things up - although it appears as a current
download, it is for Win 95 or 98. I had to roll back using Ghost to
overcome that problem. Still, given the way the problem occurs, I
think video drivers are unlikely agents.

Thanks for the suggestions.



On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:52:39 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>That it doesn't occur in safe mode indicates it's a driver, service or
>software loading in normal mode that's the problem. Check for driver
>updates for the video and audio system. In msconfig disable things
>using the 1/2 principle. Disable 1/2 of them and see what happens. No
>change, re-enable and disable the other 1/2. Once you identify which
>half, then cut that in half again. For services do this first with the
>non microsoft services. Keep in mind that disabling certain MS services
>can cause windows not to boot. Make sure you are familiar with how to
>start services using the recover console.
>
>Another option is to use driver verifier. See this KB article:
>How to Use Driver Verifier to Troubleshoot Windows Drivers
>http://support.microsoft.com/?id=244617

Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:45 AM
I took your approach and first found out that most of the services and
programs were from Microsoft. I disabled everything else except Norton
Antivirus related and ZoneAlarm programs and services. These never
caused problems in the past and don't on any of my other machines.

What was left were mainly ATI (video), HP (printer and camera), and
Nikon (camera) services or startup programs. I disabled all of them
and then started one-by-one allowing them to start up. It looked like
I could isolate the Explorer shut down hang to NkvMon.exe and
HPWuSchd2.exe. At least, at first things seemed OK. But after a few
more reboots with those startups disabled, the problem returned.

Ok, it is more likely to happen with those two programs running. But
even without them, it still seems to depend on how long I've been
using the machine.

Again, if I stop the two instances of Explorer manually (closing their
windows), my machine shuts down with never a problem. I do see one odd
warning in my Application Event Log at shutdown:
______________________________________________________
Windows saved user RANDY2\Randy registry while an application or
service was still using the registry during log off. The memory used
by the user's registry has not been freed. The registry will be
unloaded when it is no longer in use.

This is often caused by services running as a user account, try
configuring the services to run in either the LocalService or
NetworkService account.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In my System Event Viewer I see two frequent Error messages, but these
are not associated with shut down:

1. The Remote Access Connection Manager service depends on the
Telephony service which failed to start because of the following
error: The service cannot be started, either because it is disabled
or because it has no enabled devices associated with it.

[I went ahead and disabled RMAC service just now since I don't think I
need it. I had disabled Telephony a while ago.]

2. The following boot-start or system-start driver(s) failed to load:
intelppm

[I don't know the significance of this at all.]





On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:52:39 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>That it doesn't occur in safe mode indicates it's a driver, service or
>software loading in normal mode that's the problem. Check for driver
>updates for the video and audio system. In msconfig disable things
>using the 1/2 principle. Disable 1/2 of them and see what happens. No
>change, re-enable and disable the other 1/2. Once you identify which
>half, then cut that in half again. For services do this first with the
>non microsoft services. Keep in mind that disabling certain MS services
>can cause windows not to boot. Make sure you are familiar with how to
>start services using the recover console.
>
>Another option is to use driver verifier. See this KB article:
>How to Use Driver Verifier to Troubleshoot Windows Drivers
>http://support.microsoft.com/?id=244617

Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:45 AM
I found an answer to the Application Log message regarding registry
problems with memory not being freed:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;837115

I don't know if this has anything to do with the Explorer shutdown
problem, however.


On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:18:01 -0700, Randy Brook <randy1b@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I took your approach and first found out that most of the services and
>programs were from Microsoft. I disabled everything else except Norton
>Antivirus related and ZoneAlarm programs and services. These never
>caused problems in the past and don't on any of my other machines.
>
>What was left were mainly ATI (video), HP (printer and camera), and
>Nikon (camera) services or startup programs. I disabled all of them
>and then started one-by-one allowing them to start up. It looked like
>I could isolate the Explorer shut down hang to NkvMon.exe and
>HPWuSchd2.exe. At least, at first things seemed OK. But after a few
>more reboots with those startups disabled, the problem returned.
>
>Ok, it is more likely to happen with those two programs running. But
>even without them, it still seems to depend on how long I've been
>using the machine.
>
>Again, if I stop the two instances of Explorer manually (closing their
>windows), my machine shuts down with never a problem. I do see one odd
>warning in my Application Event Log at shutdown:
>______________________________________________________
>Windows saved user RANDY2\Randy registry while an application or
>service was still using the registry during log off. The memory used
>by the user's registry has not been freed. The registry will be
>unloaded when it is no longer in use.
>
> This is often caused by services running as a user account, try
>configuring the services to run in either the LocalService or
>NetworkService account.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>In my System Event Viewer I see two frequent Error messages, but these
>are not associated with shut down:
>
>1. The Remote Access Connection Manager service depends on the
>Telephony service which failed to start because of the following
>error: The service cannot be started, either because it is disabled
>or because it has no enabled devices associated with it.
>
>[I went ahead and disabled RMAC service just now since I don't think I
>need it. I had disabled Telephony a while ago.]
>
>2. The following boot-start or system-start driver(s) failed to load:
>intelppm
>
>[I don't know the significance of this at all.]
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:52:39 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>That it doesn't occur in safe mode indicates it's a driver, service or
>>software loading in normal mode that's the problem. Check for driver
>>updates for the video and audio system. In msconfig disable things
>>using the 1/2 principle. Disable 1/2 of them and see what happens. No
>>change, re-enable and disable the other 1/2. Once you identify which
>>half, then cut that in half again. For services do this first with the
>>non microsoft services. Keep in mind that disabling certain MS services
>>can cause windows not to boot. Make sure you are familiar with how to
>>start services using the recover console.
>>
>>Another option is to use driver verifier. See this KB article:
>>How to Use Driver Verifier to Troubleshoot Windows Drivers
>>http://support.microsoft.com/?id=244617

Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:45 AM
I have stopped all the warnings and errors from appearing in my Event
Viewers (described below in thread) but Explorer still hangs with End
Task on shut down.




On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:26:25 -0700, Randy Brook <randy1b@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I found an answer to the Application Log message regarding registry
>problems with memory not being freed:
>
>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;837115
>
>I don't know if this has anything to do with the Explorer shutdown
>problem, however.
>
>
>On Wed, 25 May 2005 23:18:01 -0700, Randy Brook <randy1b@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I took your approach and first found out that most of the services and
>>programs were from Microsoft. I disabled everything else except Norton
>>Antivirus related and ZoneAlarm programs and services. These never
>>caused problems in the past and don't on any of my other machines.
>>
>>What was left were mainly ATI (video), HP (printer and camera), and
>>Nikon (camera) services or startup programs. I disabled all of them
>>and then started one-by-one allowing them to start up. It looked like
>>I could isolate the Explorer shut down hang to NkvMon.exe and
>>HPWuSchd2.exe. At least, at first things seemed OK. But after a few
>>more reboots with those startups disabled, the problem returned.
>>
>>Ok, it is more likely to happen with those two programs running. But
>>even without them, it still seems to depend on how long I've been
>>using the machine.
>>
>>Again, if I stop the two instances of Explorer manually (closing their
>>windows), my machine shuts down with never a problem. I do see one odd
>>warning in my Application Event Log at shutdown:
>>______________________________________________________
>>Windows saved user RANDY2\Randy registry while an application or
>>service was still using the registry during log off. The memory used
>>by the user's registry has not been freed. The registry will be
>>unloaded when it is no longer in use.
>>
>> This is often caused by services running as a user account, try
>>configuring the services to run in either the LocalService or
>>NetworkService account.
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>In my System Event Viewer I see two frequent Error messages, but these
>>are not associated with shut down:
>>
>>1. The Remote Access Connection Manager service depends on the
>>Telephony service which failed to start because of the following
>>error: The service cannot be started, either because it is disabled
>>or because it has no enabled devices associated with it.
>>
>>[I went ahead and disabled RMAC service just now since I don't think I
>>need it. I had disabled Telephony a while ago.]
>>
>>2. The following boot-start or system-start driver(s) failed to load:
>>intelppm
>>
>>[I don't know the significance of this at all.]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:52:39 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>That it doesn't occur in safe mode indicates it's a driver, service or
>>>software loading in normal mode that's the problem. Check for driver
>>>updates for the video and audio system. In msconfig disable things
>>>using the 1/2 principle. Disable 1/2 of them and see what happens. No
>>>change, re-enable and disable the other 1/2. Once you identify which
>>>half, then cut that in half again. For services do this first with the
>>>non microsoft services. Keep in mind that disabling certain MS services
>>>can cause windows not to boot. Make sure you are familiar with how to
>>>start services using the recover console.
>>>
>>>Another option is to use driver verifier. See this KB article:
>>>How to Use Driver Verifier to Troubleshoot Windows Drivers
>>>http://support.microsoft.com/?id=244617

Rock
07-10-2005, 12:45 AM
Randy Brook wrote:

> I took your approach and first found out that most of the services and
> programs were from Microsoft. I disabled everything else except Norton
> Antivirus related and ZoneAlarm programs and services. These never
> caused problems in the past and don't on any of my other machines.
>

You can't assume any single service is not the problem. Things get
corrupted. You have to be consistent and test them all.


--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Randy Brook
07-10-2005, 12:46 AM
I'm giving up. I've spent way more time trying to debug this than I
would spend in the next 5 years just manually closing the explorer
windows before I shut down the machine.



On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:35:16 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:

>Randy Brook wrote:
>
>> I took your approach and first found out that most of the services and
>> programs were from Microsoft. I disabled everything else except Norton
>> Antivirus related and ZoneAlarm programs and services. These never
>> caused problems in the past and don't on any of my other machines.
>>
>
>You can't assume any single service is not the problem. Things get
>corrupted. You have to be consistent and test them all.

Rock
07-10-2005, 12:47 AM
Randy Brook wrote:

> I'm giving up. I've spent way more time trying to debug this than I
> would spend in the next 5 years just manually closing the explorer
> windows before I shut down the machine.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:35:16 -0700, Rock <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Randy Brook wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I took your approach and first found out that most of the services and
>>>programs were from Microsoft. I disabled everything else except Norton
>>>Antivirus related and ZoneAlarm programs and services. These never
>>>caused problems in the past and don't on any of my other machines.
>>>
>>
>>You can't assume any single service is not the problem. Things get
>>corrupted. You have to be consistent and test them all.
>
>

Ok good luck.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User


Explorer hangs with End Task on shut down