Parallel Port with XP



ALP
07-10-2005, 12:36 AM
I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
This is very inconvenient to do.
Is this really true?

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:36 AM
ALP wrote:

> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
> computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.

Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less inconvenient
than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer because you fried
interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..

Steve

jeridbohmann
07-10-2005, 12:36 AM
That is NOT true. They want you to do it that way for instalation of drivers.

"ALP" wrote:

> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
> computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:36 AM
ALP wrote:
> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
> to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
> the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.
In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.
Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during use?
If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is plugged in.

ALP
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Thanks.
You say it's true.
jeridbohmann says it's not true.
What should I do????

"Steve N." wrote:

> ALP wrote:
>
> > I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> > I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
> > computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> > Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> > This is very inconvenient to do.
> > Is this really true?
>
> Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
>
> Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less inconvenient
> than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer because you fried
> interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
>
> Steve
>

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
T. Waters wrote:
> ALP wrote:
>> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>> to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>> the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>> This is very inconvenient to do.
>> Is this really true?
>
> I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.
> In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
> detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.
> Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during
> use?
> If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
> particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is
> plugged in.

Per Steve's post, the note about not plugging in a powered-on printer is of
paramount importance. In my case, the printer is set to power off shortly
after a print job, so my assumption was that your printer would only be
turned on after the print job was sent.Your results may vary. Caution is
advised.

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Steve is smarter.
Also, if your computer is set to always power itself automatically, you will
never plug in a powered-on printer, so weigh your risks and take your
chances.

ALP wrote:
> Thanks.
> You say it's true.
> jeridbohmann says it's not true.
> What should I do????
>
> "Steve N." wrote:
>
>> ALP wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
>>> cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
>>> could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
>>> and the reboot.
>>> This is very inconvenient to do.
>>> Is this really true?
>>
>> Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
>>
>> Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less
>> inconvenient than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer
>> because you fried interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
>>
>> Steve

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
that is, "power itself *OFF* automatically.

T. Waters wrote:
> Steve is smarter.
> Also, if your computer is set to always power itself automatically,
> you will never plug in a powered-on printer, so weigh your risks and
> take your chances.
>
> ALP wrote:
>> Thanks.
>> You say it's true.
>> jeridbohmann says it's not true.
>> What should I do????
>>
>> "Steve N." wrote:
>>
>>> ALP wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
>>>> cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
>>>> could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
>>>> and the reboot.
>>>> This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>> Is this really true?
>>>
>>> Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
>>>
>>> Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less
>>> inconvenient than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer
>>> because you fried interface port(s) by plugging it in with power
>>> on..
>>>
>>> Steve

CWatters
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
"ALP" <ALP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:03F0CFE3-3E38-44FE-977D-30671832B1FF@microsoft.com...
> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to
the
> computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

If you are doing this several times a day you are more likely to damage the
port with static electricity and or physically wearing out the connectors.
The plating on some is quite thin.

Perhaps consider hooking your printer to your network using a printer
server.

Tim Slattery
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
ALP <ALP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
>computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
>Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>This is very inconvenient to do.
>Is this really true?

Yes it is. One of the advantages that USB has over the older parallel
and serial ports is the ability to hot-swap. That means to remove and
add devices while the machine is running. The parallel and serial
ports just aren't designed to do that.

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(DTS)
Slattery_T@bls.gov

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
ALP wrote:

> Thanks.
> You say it's true.
> jeridbohmann says it's not true.
> What should I do????

Beats me. It's your stuff, take the chance if you want to. I've seen
enough parallel ports and printers become damaged by doing this to know
it's true. I've also seen people do it an it not damage anything, but I
don't like taking chances and they just lucked out.

I've been working with digital electronics, building and maintaining
computers steadily since 1985, if that might count for anything. I
happen to know how parallel ports are made and work, they have no
buffering, short-circuit or overvoltage protection, they are basically
straight TTL input/output circuits.

Steve

>
> "Steve N." wrote:
>
>
>>ALP wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
>>>computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
>>>Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>Is this really true?
>>
>>Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
>>
>>Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less inconvenient
>>than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer because you fried
>>interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
>>
>>Steve
>>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
T. Waters wrote:

> Steve is smarter.

LOL! Thanks! Somedays I'm smarter than other days.

Steve

> Also, if your computer is set to always power itself automatically, you will
> never plug in a powered-on printer, so weigh your risks and take your
> chances.
>
> ALP wrote:
>
>>Thanks.
>>You say it's true.
>>jeridbohmann says it's not true.
>>What should I do????
>>
>>"Steve N." wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ALP wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
>>>>cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
>>>>could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
>>>>and the reboot.
>>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>>Is this really true?
>>>
>>>Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
>>>
>>>Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less
>>>inconvenient than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer
>>>because you fried interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
>>>
>>>Steve
>
>
>
>

jeridbohmann
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Everyone is bringing up good points. If you are doing this 2-3 times a day,
find a different way. Parallel was not meant for that. If this is a one time
shot or a once a week kind of thing your fine. If you are going to do this
multiple times a day I would advise against it. Otherwise you'll be fine
(however notice everyone did say make sure the printer is turned off...follow
that one for sure!)

"ALP" wrote:

> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
> computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Tim Slattery wrote:

> ALP <ALP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
>>computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
>>Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>Is this really true?
>
>
> Yes it is. One of the advantages that USB has over the older parallel
> and serial ports is the ability to hot-swap. That means to remove and
> add devices while the machine is running. The parallel and serial
> ports just aren't designed to do that.
>

Yes, serial ports aren't really designed to be hot swapable in the same
sense that we think of it today but they have sufficient internal
bufferring to prevent physical damage to them from doing so and if you
can re-initialize a serial port completely while powered it can be done
(depending on the system, the OS, the application and the device), I've
done it in the past but prefer not to.

Steve

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
T. Waters wrote:

> ALP wrote:
>
>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>Is this really true?
>
>
> I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.

It is true T.W. I've seen more people break parallel ports and printers
hooking them up hot than I can remember.

> In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
> detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.

It doesn't really have anything to do with PnP, it has to do with how
the electronics are designed.

> Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during use?
> If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
> particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is plugged in.
>

Sorry, I have to disagree. Parallel connections are not hot swapable in
any way, PC and printer should both be off.

Steve

R. McCarty
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Also the Parallel port mode is a factor, especially the bidirectional
and ECP modes.

"Steve N." <Steve_N@nunya.biz.nes> wrote in message
news:%23MOa$yXXFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> T. Waters wrote:
>
>> ALP wrote:
>>
>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>Is this really true?
>>
>>
>> I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.
>
> It is true T.W. I've seen more people break parallel ports and printers
> hooking them up hot than I can remember.
>
>> In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
>> detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.
>
> It doesn't really have anything to do with PnP, it has to do with how the
> electronics are designed.
>
>> Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during use?
>> If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
>> particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is plugged
>> in.
>>
>
> Sorry, I have to disagree. Parallel connections are not hot swapable in
> any way, PC and printer should both be off.
>
> Steve

jeridbohmann
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
T Waters writes: "I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true"
Then he says Steve is smarter. ALP...9 years of hardware and I do it all the
time and not once has anything happened. Not saying it couldn't...just saying
it's okay to do as long as your not doing it 2-3 times a day. Pins will wear
out then. However once a week or whatever....your fine.

"T. Waters" wrote:

> Steve is smarter.
> Also, if your computer is set to always power itself automatically, you will
> never plug in a powered-on printer, so weigh your risks and take your
> chances.
>
> ALP wrote:
> > Thanks.
> > You say it's true.
> > jeridbohmann says it's not true.
> > What should I do????
> >
> > "Steve N." wrote:
> >
> >> ALP wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> >>> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
> >>> cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
> >>> could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
> >>> and the reboot.
> >>> This is very inconvenient to do.
> >>> Is this really true?
> >>
> >> Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
> >>
> >> Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less
> >> inconvenient than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer
> >> because you fried interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
> >>
> >> Steve
>
>
>
>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
jeridbohmann wrote:

> T Waters writes: "I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true"
> Then he says Steve is smarter. ALP...9 years of hardware and I do it all the
> time and not once has anything happened. Not saying it couldn't...just saying
> it's okay to do as long as your not doing it 2-3 times a day. Pins will wear
> out then. However once a week or whatever....your fine.

I'm sorry if what T.W. say may have offended you. I don't think I'm
smarter than you, heck I just now "met" you, you could be another
Einstien for all I know. I will say (and not intending to be boasting,
just informational) that I've got 20+ years of PC experience and 30+
years of electronics experience including 25+ years of digital
electronics under my belt. It doesn't mean I'm any smarter but I have
seen a lot more and maybe I know about some stuff you don't. That's not
smarter, just different knowledge. I may not be a super-duper expert but
I do know what I've seen. You have been lucky, IMO. I've seen people do
it a lot of times and get away with it, too, but that doesn't make it a
good practice and if it isn't a good practice it isn't good advice, no
offense intended at all either.

The main issue I'm concerned about isn't pins wearing out but is that
parallel port and printer inteface use TTL circuits which are static
sensitive devices and it doesn't take much to crater `em. All it takes
is one itty bitty spark that you can't even see while you're connecting
that cable between the two hot devices, or a short between pins or pins
and shell with even one device hot and those teensy-weensie little
buggers that take the hit are so much burnt up silicon and metal oxides.
Maybe it'll happen and maybe it won't, but if it does that
port/interface is dead.

Steve

>
> "T. Waters" wrote:
>
>
>>Steve is smarter.
>>Also, if your computer is set to always power itself automatically, you will
>>never plug in a powered-on printer, so weigh your risks and take your
>>chances.
>>
>>ALP wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>You say it's true.
>>>jeridbohmann says it's not true.
>>>What should I do????
>>>
>>>"Steve N." wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>ALP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
>>>>>cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
>>>>>could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
>>>>>and the reboot.
>>>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>>>Is this really true?
>>>>
>>>>Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less
>>>>inconvenient than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer
>>>>because you fried interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
CWatters wrote:
> "ALP" <ALP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:03F0CFE3-3E38-44FE-977D-30671832B1FF@microsoft.com...
>
>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to
>
> the
>
>>computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
>>Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>Is this really true?
>
>
> If you are doing this several times a day you are more likely to damage the
> port with static electricity

Or electric charges other than static. Having power on one or the other
or both devices increases the chance of an electrical discharge into
those unbuffered static sensitive circuits.

> and or physically wearing out the connectors.
> The plating on some is quite thin.
>
> Perhaps consider hooking your printer to your network using a printer
> server.
>
>

Or getting a USB to Parallel adaptor, probably quite a bit cheaper.

Steve

Jerry Schwartz
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
The possibility of hardware damage is real, but small. The problem is that a
good part of the odds come from the design of the specific hardware, so some
combinations of printer / computer would never be damaged and others might.

In other words, if you've already done it a hundred times with no problems
then you're probably safe for another hundred times. If you've damaged your
computer or the printer, you're likely to do it again.

--
Regards,

Jerry Schwartz
http://www.writebynight.com
e-card JerryS https://ecardfile.com/
"ALP" <ALP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:03F0CFE3-3E38-44FE-977D-30671832B1FF@microsoft.com...
>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to
> the
> computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

Curmudgeon
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Jerry Schwartz wrote:
> The possibility of hardware damage is real, but small.

Yep.

I've connected/disconnected many a parallel printer with NO problem,
but I knew I might one day incur on.

Those days are past.

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
R. McCarty wrote:

> Also the Parallel port mode is a factor, especially the bidirectional
> and ECP modes.

I'm not sure what you mean, but regardlesss of bi-directional, ECP and
EPP firmware modes, the actual port interface circuitry is still
sensitive to static-induced (or other) electrical discharge. That's why
you don't make/break connections while the device or port are hot. It is
just not a hot-swapable hardware achitecture, wasnever intended to be
and still is not. That's one reason why they invented data switches and
some of those weren't even safe enough and people were killing laser
printer interfaces using them, so then they invented "non-shorting"
(actually, non-arcing) data switches for use with some of those
particularly sensitive peripheral devices to lessen the liklihood of
electrical discharges damaging sensitive interface circuits while
making/breaking peripheral connections (which is what a switch does).

Steve

>
> "Steve N." <Steve_N@nunya.biz.nes> wrote in message
> news:%23MOa$yXXFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>
>>T. Waters wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ALP wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>>Is this really true?
>>>
>>>
>>>I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.
>>
>>It is true T.W. I've seen more people break parallel ports and printers
>>hooking them up hot than I can remember.
>>
>>
>>>In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
>>>detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.
>>
>>It doesn't really have anything to do with PnP, it has to do with how the
>>electronics are designed.
>>
>>
>>>Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during use?
>>>If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
>>>particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is plugged
>>>in.
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, I have to disagree. Parallel connections are not hot swapable in
>>any way, PC and printer should both be off.
>>
>>Steve
>
>
>

DevilsPGD
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
In message <EB64BF67-4343-45EC-8014-4E4CCFAC74E9@microsoft.com> ALP
<ALP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Thanks.
>You say it's true.
>jeridbohmann says it's not true.
>What should I do????

In theory, you might cause damage. In reality, MOST of the time you'll
be fine. However, since the hardware isn't designed to be hotswappable,
and the interface isn't buffered, what worked 1000 times before might
fry the printer and/or the computer one day.

The easiest solution is to buy a USB <--> Parallel adapter which is
designed to allow you to hotswap. They're relatively cheap vs the cost
of replacing the failed hardware even if all that dies is a printer.


--
This post is double ROT13'd for extra security. Attempting to violate
or decode this post without written authorization is a violation of the DMCA.

DevilsPGD
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
In message <1116635532.297427.149120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
"Curmudgeon" <krmujn@ameritech.net> wrote:

>
>Jerry Schwartz wrote:
>> The possibility of hardware damage is real, but small.
>
>Yep.
>
>I've connected/disconnected many a parallel printer with NO problem,
>but I knew I might one day incur on.
>
>Those days are past.

It's also worth noting that hardware these days isn't built to the same
specs that were used in the good 'ol days. Tolerances are tighter
(meaning that a small surge is more likely to cause damage), profit
margins are thinner (reducing the chance that a manufacturer will go the
extra mile and make sure that a small spike doesn't damage anything),
and not only that, people don't use COM/LPT ports as much as was done in
the past since virtually all new hardware is USB.


--
This post is double ROT13'd for extra security. Attempting to violate
or decode this post without written authorization is a violation of the DMCA.

HeyBub
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
ALP wrote:
> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
> to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
> the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> This is very inconvenient to do.
> Is this really true?

I've done it thousands of times. One of two things must be true:

1. You have a dainty, delicate, fussy computer that is so flimsy and poorly
engineered you should look at the monitor with only one eye.

2. The person who warned you is playing with an empty quiver.

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Steve N. wrote:
> T. Waters wrote:
>
>> ALP wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
>>> cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
>>> could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
>>> and the reboot. This is very inconvenient to do.
>>> Is this really true?
>>
>>
>> I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.
>
> It is true T.W. I've seen more people break parallel ports and
> printers hooking them up hot than I can remember.
>
>> In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
>> detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.
>
> It doesn't really have anything to do with PnP, it has to do with how
> the electronics are designed.
>
>> Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during
>> use?
>> If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
>> particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is
>> plugged in.
>>
>
> Sorry, I have to disagree. Parallel connections are not hot swapable
> in any way, PC and printer should both be off.
>
> Steve

Thanks for the heads up. Your description of the unprotected nature of these
ports has made me seen the light!

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
HeyBub wrote:
> ALP wrote:
>
>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>Is this really true?
>
>
> I've done it thousands of times. One of two things must be true:
>
> 1. You have a dainty, delicate, fussy computer that is so flimsy and poorly
> engineered you should look at the monitor with only one eye.

The fact that you've gotten away with it "thousands of times" is
irrelevant. I have persoanlly seen do so permantently damage equipment
many, many times.

>
> 2. The person who warned you is playing with an empty quiver.
>

The person who warned the OP has been a computer technician since 1985
and an electronics technician since 1970, including digital electronics.
Save your lame remarks for someone you know something about.

Steve

Kevin Brunt (Fat B@stard)!!
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
I would say ignore everything Steve N says as there is evidence that he is talking from his brain located in his boots! He likes to wind people and if you do a search you will find that he disagrees with everybody (including regulars who are correct most of the time) on these newsgroups.





ALP wrote:
>
> Thanks.
> You say it's true.
> jeridbohmann says it's not true.
> What should I do????
>
> "Steve N." wrote:
>
> > ALP wrote:
> >
> > > I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> > > I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
> > > computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
> > > Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> > > This is very inconvenient to do.
> > > Is this really true?
> >
> > Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
> >
> > Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less inconvenient
> > than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer because you fried
> > interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
> >
> > Steve
> >

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
Kevin Brunt (Fat B@stard)!! wrote:

>
> I would say ignore everything Steve N says as there is evidence that
> he is talking from his brain located in his boots! He likes to wind
> people and if you do a search you will find that he disagrees with
> everybody (including regulars who are correct most of the time) on
> these newsgroups.
>
>

Prove it.

Steve

NobodyMan
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
On Sat, 21 May 2005 10:43:55 -0700, "Steve N." <Steve_N@nunya.biz.nes>
wrote:

>HeyBub wrote:
>> ALP wrote:
>>
>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>Is this really true?
>>
>>
>> I've done it thousands of times. One of two things must be true:
>>
>> 1. You have a dainty, delicate, fussy computer that is so flimsy and poorly
>> engineered you should look at the monitor with only one eye.
>
>The fact that you've gotten away with it "thousands of times" is
>irrelevant. I have persoanlly seen do so permantently damage equipment
>many, many times.

Neither of these arguments is statistically relevant. Both are
presented as anectodotal evidence, with not a shred of actual truth
for either side. Personal observation isn't scientifc fact.

>>
>> 2. The person who warned you is playing with an empty quiver.
>>
>
>The person who warned the OP has been a computer technician since 1985
>and an electronics technician since 1970, including digital electronics.
>Save your lame remarks for someone you know something about.
>
OK, now this has teeth. When a recognized expert testifies, then
people should listen. The problem here is that nobody knows you OR
your touted expert, so why should they believe either?

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
HeyBub wrote:

> ALP wrote:
>
>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>Is this really true?
>
>
> I've done it thousands of times. One of two things must be true:
>
> 1. You have a dainty, delicate, fussy computer that is so flimsy and poorly
> engineered you should look at the monitor with only one eye.
>
> 2. The person who warned you is playing with an empty quiver.


HeyBub, don't take my word for it...

http://www.ctips.com/spp.html

Parallel port data lines:
" These 8 lines carry the information to be printed and also special
printer codes to set the printer in different modes like italics, each
line carries a bit of information to be sent, the information here
travels only from the computer to the printer or other parallel device.
These lines function with standard TTL voltages, 5 volts for a logical 1
and 0 volts for a logical 0."

http://www.pmdx.com/Resources/parallel-port.html

"6. Electrical
See also the tutorial section below on TTL outputs. The Data Out pins
were orginally driven by a 74LS374 octal latch, which could source 2.6
mA and sink 24 mA. There were 0.0022uF capacitors between each line and
ground to reduce transients. The manual warns "It is essential that the
external device not try to pull these lines to ground", as this might
cause the 74LS374 to source more current than it could handle without
damage. "

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/parallel_output.html

"You can break parallel ports by connecting devices to them when PC is
powered on."

Now, if you really want to get deep into a small amount of the stuff I
know check this out:

http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/LINK/PORTS/F_PARALLEL14.html#PARALLEL_002

HeyBub, how's that for an "empty quiver"?

Steve

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:38 AM
NobodyMan wrote:

> On Sat, 21 May 2005 10:43:55 -0700, "Steve N." <Steve_N@nunya.biz.nes>
> wrote:
>
>
>>HeyBub wrote:
>>
>>>ALP wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
>>>>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
>>>>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
>>>>Is this really true?
>>>
>>>
>>>I've done it thousands of times. One of two things must be true:
>>>
>>>1. You have a dainty, delicate, fussy computer that is so flimsy and poorly
>>>engineered you should look at the monitor with only one eye.
>>
>>The fact that you've gotten away with it "thousands of times" is
>>irrelevant. I have persoanlly seen do so permantently damage equipment
>>many, many times.
>
>
> Neither of these arguments is statistically relevant. Both are
> presented as anectodotal evidence, with not a shred of actual truth
> for either side. Personal observation isn't scientifc fact.
>
>
>>>2. The person who warned you is playing with an empty quiver.
>>>
>>
>>The person who warned the OP has been a computer technician since 1985
>>and an electronics technician since 1970, including digital electronics.
>>Save your lame remarks for someone you know something about.
>>
>
> OK, now this has teeth. When a recognized expert testifies, then
> people should listen. The problem here is that nobody knows you OR
> your touted expert, so why should they believe either?
>

Some people here know me fairly well I think and *I* happen to be the
"touted expert" (as you termed it) that I referred to. If you'd have
followed this thread you'd know that. But don't take my word for it,
read my second response to HeyBub.

What you or anyone else chooses to believe is not my problem, I tell the
truth as I know it. If someone can prove me to be incorrect I assure you
that I am not above correction and have no problem accepting it when I'm
wrong about something.

As far as being "a recognized expert" goes, who the heck are you?

Now, if you want me to post my resume, then offer me a job (not that I
need or want or am looking for a different one).

Steve

jeridbohmann
07-10-2005, 12:41 AM
No offense taken Steve...just was saying he was contridicting himself by
saying that. Nothing wrong with different opinions...it's what the board is
for. I just hope ALP doesn't run into any problems. :)

"Steve N." wrote:

> jeridbohmann wrote:
>
> > T Waters writes: "I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true"
> > Then he says Steve is smarter. ALP...9 years of hardware and I do it all the
> > time and not once has anything happened. Not saying it couldn't...just saying
> > it's okay to do as long as your not doing it 2-3 times a day. Pins will wear
> > out then. However once a week or whatever....your fine.
>
> I'm sorry if what T.W. say may have offended you. I don't think I'm
> smarter than you, heck I just now "met" you, you could be another
> Einstien for all I know. I will say (and not intending to be boasting,
> just informational) that I've got 20+ years of PC experience and 30+
> years of electronics experience including 25+ years of digital
> electronics under my belt. It doesn't mean I'm any smarter but I have
> seen a lot more and maybe I know about some stuff you don't. That's not
> smarter, just different knowledge. I may not be a super-duper expert but
> I do know what I've seen. You have been lucky, IMO. I've seen people do
> it a lot of times and get away with it, too, but that doesn't make it a
> good practice and if it isn't a good practice it isn't good advice, no
> offense intended at all either.
>
> The main issue I'm concerned about isn't pins wearing out but is that
> parallel port and printer inteface use TTL circuits which are static
> sensitive devices and it doesn't take much to crater `em. All it takes
> is one itty bitty spark that you can't even see while you're connecting
> that cable between the two hot devices, or a short between pins or pins
> and shell with even one device hot and those teensy-weensie little
> buggers that take the hit are so much burnt up silicon and metal oxides.
> Maybe it'll happen and maybe it won't, but if it does that
> port/interface is dead.
>
> Steve
>
> >
> > "T. Waters" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Steve is smarter.
> >>Also, if your computer is set to always power itself automatically, you will
> >>never plug in a powered-on printer, so weigh your risks and take your
> >>chances.
> >>
> >>ALP wrote:
> >>
> >>>Thanks.
> >>>You say it's true.
> >>>jeridbohmann says it's not true.
> >>>What should I do????
> >>>
> >>>"Steve N." wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>ALP wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> >>>>>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port
> >>>>>cable to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I
> >>>>>could damage the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it,
> >>>>>and the reboot.
> >>>>>This is very inconvenient to do.
> >>>>>Is this really true?
> >>>>
> >>>>Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.
> >>>>
> >>>>Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less
> >>>>inconvenient than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer
> >>>>because you fried interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..
> >>>>
> >>>>Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>

guestfromhell
07-10-2005, 12:41 AM
Just to sling in my two pennorth..........

Ive been installing networks for 15 years. In that time ive frequently
plugged and unplugged printers when its all up and running and never
had a fried parallel port ever.............guess its the luck of the
draw....or how good the hardware is.

The onl yreason to power down the printer and then power up when
connected is so windows plug'n'play can spot it and ask for the
drivers. Some printers can be fun if you dont do it that way.


Steve N. Wrote:
> T. Waters wrote:
>
> > ALP wrote:
> >
> >>I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
> >>I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable
> >>to the computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage
> >>the port. Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
> >>This is very inconvenient to do.
> >>Is this really true?
> >
> >
> > I I don't believe the reference to a damaged port is true.
>
> It is true T.W. I've seen more people break parallel ports and printers
> hooking them up hot than I can remember.
>
> > In general, with Windows Plug-and-Play feature, the feature works by
> > detecting new hardware upon booting up, not during use.
>
> It doesn't really have anything to do with PnP, it has to do with how
> the electronics are designed.
>
> > Have you had any problems with connecting the printer cable during
> use?
> > If it works for you, it should not be able to damage the computer,
> > particularly if the printer is not powered on at the time it is
> plugged in.
> >
>
> Sorry, I have to disagree. Parallel connections are not hot swapable in
> any way, PC and printer should both be off.
>
> Steve


--
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Paul Knudsen
07-10-2005, 12:50 AM
On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:23:03 -0700, "Steve N." <Steve_N@nunya.biz.nes>
wrote:

>ALP wrote:
>
>> I have a Dell Inspiron 4100 Notebook, with Microsoft XP SP2.
>> I was told that I should not connect my printer's parallel port cable to the
>> computer while the computer is on, and if I do, I could damage the port.
>> Rather I should shut down, then connect it, and the reboot.
>> This is very inconvenient to do.
>> Is this really true?
>
>Yes it is true and make sure the printer is also off.

If the computer is off, what difference does it make if the printer is
on? I've plugged and unplugged the printer lots of times while on
(Computer off) with no problems.

>Sorry if it is very inconvenient for you but it's much less inconvenient
>than having to replace your motherboard and/or printer because you fried
>interface port(s) by plugging it in with power on..

I'd consider it a warranty issue and ask for a new motherboard!
--
Top 10 Conservative Idiots:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/

Bob I
07-10-2005, 12:53 AM
In my book, Anything attached with screw fasteners is NOT to be hot
plugged!

Paul Knudsen wrote:


>
> I'd consider it a warranty issue and ask for a new motherboard!


Parallel Port with XP