Piracy and you



Falcon
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
I am not going to comment on this post from "Old Timer" that is on Beta News.
I just think it is a good balanced point of view, much more so than the views
from some of the fanatics and lunatics who post/reply here.


From Old Timer:

I don't have a problem with MS wanting to protect their intellectual
property rights. It ~is~ a right, you know.

It's a wonder that ppl will bash MS for legitimately wanting to safeguard
the fruits of their labor and knowing full well that those same bashers would
jealously protect their own property from theft.

Some will say that MS goes overboard in safeguarding their property. Face
it, piracy and the users of pirated products goes on all around every one of
us. Is it self-serving for MS to say so? Maybe. But I suspect anyone would do
the same thing if it were your own valuable commercial product that someone
was re-packaging for their own profit.

It's robbery if it happens to you, so what is it if it happens to MS? My own
understanding of the article is that MS concedes that a lot of end-users are
using counterfeit copies of it's OS. Is MS generally filing lawsuits against
end-users? No. Might they at some point? Maybe, but you definitely would
[without delay] if it were your commercial product being ripped off. Are they
going after the counterfeiters? Absolutely!

MS concedes that piracy won't end and that they have no illusions to the
contrary. Why would they allow security updates to go out to even pirated
product? Security of even the pirated product is valuable to everyone, not
the least of which MS who are contributors (whether anyone likes it or not)
to the tech industry as a whole. Whether you like MS or not: "The enemy
(virus creators) of my enemy (MS) is my friend."

Frankly, I do like MS products. (I know: SUCH heresy!) I also like the open
source community, linux, apple and a lot of other contributors to tech. They
all have a very important seat at the table and contribute to different ~and~
like categories. Both competitively and in partnership.

We all like "free", there's no doubt. Is it a crime against humanity to make
whatever living you can (rich OR meager) out of your efforts? MS has a LOT of
free stuff that you can get even without WGA if you'll just go get it.

Possibly a larger number of items than the items they charge for. Or
possibly more accurately, a LOT of bonus content, material, programs and etc
for those who purchase their products. I like that. Other software companies
probably only wish they could be as generous with their customers. (Oops!
There I've gone and invited curses for using the "G" word :)

You might be surprised after reading the above that I am against any
KGB-like, police-state 'turning-in-your-neighbor' tactics in enforcing
copy-rights or intellectual property rights. I'm okay with MS legitimizing
end-user's pirated product in return for informing on the seller of the
pirated product. But I think that's about as far as MS should go in those
regards (and I hope if MS is reading this that they agree.)

I'm a tech and I go out of my way to make sure that the products I pass on
with the systems I sell are legitimate. However, I see other OEMs and
builders who aren't as contientious. I don't think they are being malicious,
for the most part. But here is where much of the problem of counterfeiting
lies. The carelessness of system builders and OEMs, and I'll admit that
sometimes it's greed, is the fertile market for counterfeiters.

If I believed that the WGA was a method of 'stealing' my information or that
MS routinely gathers the 'marketing information' of it's customers for
general dissemination I would be a pre-dominately linux user. I'm not
blind... I've always carefully watched for spam and other indications that
any merchant that I do biz with might have created. I'm from
'back-in-the-day' when we had MS-DOS and PC-DOS (is anyone still out there
who knows the difference? It wasn't really that long ago) and I rarely have a
problem with most merchants. I admit you do have to do your homework, but
it's worth it.

Personally, I give MS 5-stars out of 5 in the privacy category (if not quite
that in others. BTW, it's been since Win95 and only a couple times in 98 that
I've personally had a BSOD or had to reinstall... I didn't even have a
problem with XP SP2. No offense, but it's really a matter of how you take
care of your system isn't it? Kudos to 'eunichman'.)

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Back to the subject... someone said that MS
"b****'s and moan's". I KNOW you would if it were Your livelihood that was at
stake. Maybe it ~doesn't~ amount to billions or maybe it does; either way if
it were happening to you in the same measure you'd be bankrupt for the next
100 lives (if there were such a thing; but that's a different topic ;)

That's where I stand... I guess I've sat mute reading such c**p over the
years that I finally had to jump in and give my half-cent.

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Falcon wrote:
> I am not going to comment on this post from "Old Timer" that is on
> Beta News. I just think it is a good balanced point of view, much
> more so than the views from some of the fanatics and lunatics who
> post/reply here.
>
>
> From Old Timer:
>
> I don't have a problem with MS wanting to protect their intellectual
> property rights. It ~is~ a right, you know.

Really no such thing as "intellectual property." Copyright Rights.

If Copyright was property, then there would be no need for copyright
law.

> It's a wonder that ppl will bash MS for legitimately wanting to
> safeguard the fruits of their labor and knowing full well that those
> same bashers would jealously protect their own property from theft.

Microsoft is a corporation, and does not labor. It benefits from the
labor of its employees.

And again Copyrighted material is not property.

> Some will say that MS goes overboard in safeguarding their property.
> Face it, piracy and the users of pirated products goes on all around
> every one of us. Is it self-serving for MS to say so? Maybe. But I
> suspect anyone would do the same thing if it were your own valuable
> commercial product that someone was re-packaging for their own profit.

LOL! The worldwide piracy rate had been steadily decreasing until
Microsoft started to include copy-protection its software. Ever since
the rate of piracy hasn't really changed much.

>
> It's robbery if it happens to you, so what is it if it happens to MS?

It is called Copyright Infringement under Copyright law.

> My own understanding of the article is that MS concedes that a lot of
> end-users are using counterfeit copies of it's OS. Is MS generally
> filing lawsuits against end-users? No. Might they at some point?
> Maybe, but you definitely would [without delay] if it were your
> commercial product being ripped off. Are they going after the
> counterfeiters? Absolutely!

It depends. MS considers "fair use" piracy, but they will NEVER sue to
prove it.

> MS concedes that piracy won't end and that they have no illusions to
> the contrary. Why would they allow security updates to go out to even
> pirated product? Security of even the pirated product is valuable to
> everyone, not the least of which MS who are contributors (whether
> anyone likes it or not) to the tech industry as a whole. Whether you
> like MS or not: "The enemy (virus creators) of my enemy (MS) is my
> friend."

MS is in the works to try to shut out pirated OSs from getting updates,
so I don't know how valuable MS take the security of all.

>
> Frankly, I do like MS products. (I know: SUCH heresy!) I also like
> the open source community, linux, apple and a lot of other
> contributors to tech. They all have a very important seat at the
> table and contribute to different ~and~ like categories. Both
> competitively and in partnership.
>
> We all like "free", there's no doubt. Is it a crime against humanity
> to make whatever living you can (rich OR meager) out of your efforts?
> MS has a LOT of free stuff that you can get even without WGA if
> you'll just go get it.

LOL! This is an apology for WGA! And this is the first mention of WGA
in this essay!

>
> Possibly a larger number of items than the items they charge for. Or
> possibly more accurately, a LOT of bonus content, material, programs
> and etc for those who purchase their products. I like that. Other
> software companies probably only wish they could be as generous with
> their customers. (Oops! There I've gone and invited curses for using
> the "G" word :)

LOL! MS generous? How much have they overcharged everyone for their
software?

> You might be surprised after reading the above that I am against any
> KGB-like, police-state 'turning-in-your-neighbor' tactics in enforcing
> copy-rights or intellectual property rights. I'm okay with MS
> legitimizing end-user's pirated product in return for informing on
> the seller of the pirated product. But I think that's about as far as
> MS should go in those regards (and I hope if MS is reading this that
> they agree.)

LOL! I doubt it!

>
> I'm a tech and I go out of my way to make sure that the products I
> pass on with the systems I sell are legitimate. However, I see other
> OEMs and builders who aren't as contientious.

LOL! I doubt you are!

> I don't think they are
> being malicious, for the most part. But here is where much of the
> problem of counterfeiting lies. The carelessness of system builders
> and OEMs, and I'll admit that sometimes it's greed, is the fertile
> market for counterfeiters.

The fertile fields of true piracy are in countries with little or no
copyright laws, or strong enforcement! WGA will do NOTHING to reduce
piracy where it run rampant. All WGA will do is add another layer of BS
that makes it harder for the paying customer to legitimately use the
very expensive software they have every right to use!

> If I believed that the WGA was a method of 'stealing' my information
> or that MS routinely gathers the 'marketing information' of it's
> customers for general dissemination I would be a pre-dominately linux
> user.

LOL! Privacy is not the only concern. What about the people that WILL
have problems with WGA as people have had with PA?

This whole article doesn't mention PA at all, like it doesn't exist!
Like people haven't already contacted MS to legitimize their installs!

> I'm not blind...

It's seems you are, at least to the fact that MS already has a
copy-protection / copy-legitimizing scheme in place called PA.

HOW MANY HOOPS DO YOU HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH TO USE THE SOFTWARE YOU HAVE
EVERY RIGHT TO USE BEFORE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT?

> I've always carefully watched for spam and
> other indications that any merchant that I do biz with might have
> created. I'm from 'back-in-the-day' when we had MS-DOS and PC-DOS (is
> anyone still out there who knows the difference? It wasn't really
> that long ago) and I rarely have a problem with most merchants. I
> admit you do have to do your homework, but it's worth it.

MS-DOS! Wasn't that mostly ripped off? LOL!

>
> Personally, I give MS 5-stars out of 5 in the privacy category (if
> not quite that in others. BTW, it's been since Win95 and only a
> couple times in 98 that I've personally had a BSOD or had to
> reinstall... I didn't even have a problem with XP SP2.

Ok, now we all know you are just a bullsh*tter!

> No offense,
> but it's really a matter of how you take care of your system isn't
> it? Kudos to 'eunichman'.)
>
> Sorry, I couldn't resist. Back to the subject... someone said that MS
> "b****'s and moan's". I KNOW you would if it were Your livelihood
> that was at stake. Maybe it ~doesn't~ amount to billions or maybe it
> does; either way if it were happening to you in the same measure
> you'd be bankrupt for the next 100 lives (if there were such a thing;
> but that's a different topic ;)

LOL! With 10's of billions in liquid assests, MS would be hard pressed
to show that they have been damaged in the least by piracy, either real
piracy or their imagined piracy!

MS is both a proven patent and copyright infringer, and not one of their
individual customers has been charged with, let alone been found guilty
of infringement for installing MS software on more thean one PC for
their private non-commercial use.

This imagined piracy is where MS is bitchin' and whining over nothing!
It is imagined piracy! It is the rich boy crying Wolf where no wolf
exists!

Instead of sympathizing with a soul-less predatory monopoly, try
sympathizing with your fellow human beings, who are being called pirates
with absolutely no proof! Who are being treated as guilty until that
certify they are innocent!

>
> That's where I stand... I guess I've sat mute reading such c**p over
> the years that I finally had to jump in and give my half-cent.

BSA Global Software Piracy Rate:

1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003*
49 46 43 40 38 36 37 40 39 36

* - 1st year using IDC methodology.

MS first introduced PA in 2000 with MSO2KSP1. The piracy rate had been
declining since 1994 as more and more PCs were sold to people for Home
Use. And since MS first introduce PA the piracy rate has been
fluctuating up & down. For calculating the piracy rate in 2003, the BSA
changed its methodology, so that drop is a result of the change. Mike
Newton, campaigns relations manager for the BSA, at the time of the
release of that report said, "Right now we feel that piracy rates are on
the up."

PA is a total failure as a copy-protection tool, and as you noted
earlier, it is also a failure as an educational tool, as it has made it
more confusing for the End User to know all the little arcane policies,
and not to mention the poorly worded PA messages, like the one that
pops up and says that Win XP has been installed too many times, which
adds even more to the End User confusion and frustration!

All this is excepting the technological failures of PA, popping up when
just installing a driver, or flashing the BIOS, or not popping up after
a major hardware change!

Below is an incomplete list of error codes that have accompanied various
different license check errors that would NEVER happen to people if it
wasn't for PA!

0x80090006 - http://snipurl.com/990a

0x80070002 - http://snipurl.com/990d

0x80004005 - http://snipurl.com/990e

0X800700C1 - http://snipurl.com/990g

0x8007007e - http://snipurl.com/990i

0x80070003 - http://snipurl.com/990m

0x80090019 - http://snipurl.com/990o

0x8007007f - http://snipurl.com/990t

So considering the complete failure of PA to do ANYTHING positive for
the End User, it should be removed, and not only that, MS owes its
customers an effin' apology for saddling this useless load of crap on
them, FOR NO GOOD REASON!

And now MS wants people to jump through another hoop that won't do a
damn thing except make it harder for paying customers to use their
copies of software?!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"


Piracy and you