512 kb clusters



Don Schmidt
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased, should
have done it sooner).

After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I read 512
kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just selecting the
conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the conversion program. I
ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive and 4 mb clusters on the D 38
gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K rpm SCSI.

What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change them
to 4 kb clusters?


--
Don
Vancouver, USA

Andrew E.
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
You can read the info by reading kb315688 You might chk kb320283 also.

"Don Schmidt" wrote:

> Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased, should
> have done it sooner).
>
> After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I read 512
> kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just selecting the
> conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the conversion program. I
> ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive and 4 mb clusters on the D 38
> gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K rpm SCSI.
>
> What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change them
> to 4 kb clusters?
>
>
> --
> Don
> Vancouver, USA
>
>
>

Richard Urban
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
You have your information wrong or are stating it wrong.

The standard cluster size is 4k bytes- not 4 meg.

You have 512 bytes - not 512 k bytes

The operating can not create a partition with the tremendous cluster sizes
you are referring to!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


"Don Schmidt" <RetiredEngineer@pnb.telco> wrote in message
news:118d0p1h2282gc1@corp.supernews.com...
> Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
> should have done it sooner).
>
> After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I read
> 512 kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just selecting the
> conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the conversion program. I
> ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive and 4 mb clusters on the D 38
> gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K rpm SCSI.
>
> What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change them
> to 4 kb clusters?
>
>
> --
> Don
> Vancouver, USA
>

HeyBub
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Don Schmidt wrote:
> Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
> should have done it sooner).
>
> After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I
> read 512 kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just
> selecting the conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the
> conversion program. I ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive
> and 4 mb clusters on the D 38 gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K
> rpm SCSI.
> What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change
> them to 4 kb clusters?

Small clusters mean more reads for the same amount of data. On the other
hand, the average wasted space per file is only 256 bytes (half the cluster
size).

Virtually everybody who knows how uses much larger cluster sizes (like 4k).
You'll need a third-party program to migrate from 512 to anything else - XP
has no native way to create or change cluster sizes other than the default
512.

Don Schmidt
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Thanks Andrew for a source of a solution. Thanks others for your comments.


--
Don
Vancouver, USA


"Andrew E." <eckrichco@msn.com> wrote in message
news:F5F8045B-AFC0-4FF6-9C10-11980E349D18@microsoft.com...
> You can read the info by reading kb315688 You might chk kb320283 also.
>
> "Don Schmidt" wrote:
>
>> Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
>> should
>> have done it sooner).
>>
>> After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I read
>> 512
>> kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just selecting the
>> conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the conversion program. I
>> ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive and 4 mb clusters on the D
>> 38
>> gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K rpm SCSI.
>>
>> What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change
>> them
>> to 4 kb clusters?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don
>> Vancouver, USA
>>
>>
>>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
HeyBub wrote:

> Don Schmidt wrote:
>
>>Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
>>should have done it sooner).
>>
>>After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I
>>read 512 kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just
>>selecting the conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the
>>conversion program. I ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive
>>and 4 mb clusters on the D 38 gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K
>>rpm SCSI.
>>What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change
>>them to 4 kb clusters?
>
>
> Small clusters mean more reads for the same amount of data. On the other
> hand, the average wasted space per file is only 256 bytes (half the cluster
> size).
>
> Virtually everybody who knows how uses much larger cluster sizes (like 4k).
> You'll need a third-party program to migrate from 512 to anything else - XP
> has no native way to create or change cluster sizes other than the default
> 512.
>
>

Which is a doggone shame. It'd be really prudent of MS to develop some
serious FS and OS management/maintenance tools instead of the
half-crippled things they ship by default, many obtained from 3rd party
developers anyway. But then MS probably doesn't care a whole lot about
such things, as long as they can still sell product.

The only way I know of to reliably remedy cluster size issues natively
when going from FAT32 to NTFS is to backup everything, reformat as NTFS
and reinstall. IMO the native convert program should allow for cluster
resizing.

Steve

Yves Leclerc
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Partion Magic (now by Symantec) used to allow you to resize the clusters.
However, I have not really used P.M. recently!


"Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
news:Bu4ie.1537$X92.1138@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> HeyBub wrote:
>
>> Don Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>>Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
>>>should have done it sooner).
>>>
>>>After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I
>>>read 512 kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just
>>>selecting the conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the
>>>conversion program. I ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive
>>>and 4 mb clusters on the D 38 gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K
>>>rpm SCSI.
>>>What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change
>>>them to 4 kb clusters?
>>
>>
>> Small clusters mean more reads for the same amount of data. On the other
>> hand, the average wasted space per file is only 256 bytes (half the
>> cluster size).
>>
>> Virtually everybody who knows how uses much larger cluster sizes (like
>> 4k). You'll need a third-party program to migrate from 512 to anything
>> else - XP has no native way to create or change cluster sizes other than
>> the default 512.
>
> Which is a doggone shame. It'd be really prudent of MS to develop some
> serious FS and OS management/maintenance tools instead of the
> half-crippled things they ship by default, many obtained from 3rd party
> developers anyway. But then MS probably doesn't care a whole lot about
> such things, as long as they can still sell product.
>
> The only way I know of to reliably remedy cluster size issues natively
> when going from FAT32 to NTFS is to backup everything, reformat as NTFS
> and reinstall. IMO the native convert program should allow for cluster
> resizing.
>
> Steve
>

Richard Urban
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
They are monopolistic and opportunist. The courts won't let them do that. I
know that you know this!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


"Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
news:Bu4ie.1537$X92.1138@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> HeyBub wrote:
>
>> Don Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>>Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
>>>should have done it sooner).
>>>
>>>After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I
>>>read 512 kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just
>>>selecting the conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the
>>>conversion program. I ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive
>>>and 4 mb clusters on the D 38 gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K
>>>rpm SCSI.
>>>What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change
>>>them to 4 kb clusters?
>>
>>
>> Small clusters mean more reads for the same amount of data. On the other
>> hand, the average wasted space per file is only 256 bytes (half the
>> cluster size).
>>
>> Virtually everybody who knows how uses much larger cluster sizes (like
>> 4k). You'll need a third-party program to migrate from 512 to anything
>> else - XP has no native way to create or change cluster sizes other than
>> the default 512.
>
> Which is a doggone shame. It'd be really prudent of MS to develop some
> serious FS and OS management/maintenance tools instead of the
> half-crippled things they ship by default, many obtained from 3rd party
> developers anyway. But then MS probably doesn't care a whole lot about
> such things, as long as they can still sell product.
>
> The only way I know of to reliably remedy cluster size issues natively
> when going from FAT32 to NTFS is to backup everything, reformat as NTFS
> and reinstall. IMO the native convert program should allow for cluster
> resizing.
>
> Steve
>

Star Fleet Admiral Q
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Huh!!!

What has this got to do with the "price of tea" in China???

--

Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your Service!

http://www.google.com
Google is your "Friend"

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uTDzQ$kWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> They are monopolistic and opportunist. The courts won't let them do that.
> I know that you know this!
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
>
> aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
>
> If you knew as much as you think you know,
> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>
>
> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
> news:Bu4ie.1537$X92.1138@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>
>>> Don Schmidt wrote:
>>>
>>>>Recently upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows XP Pro. (Very pleased,
>>>>should have done it sooner).
>>>>
>>>>After I converted to NTFS on my 18 gig Western Digital hard drive I
>>>>read 512 kb clusters are performance defeating. I thought by just
>>>>selecting the conversion, the rest would be taken care of by the
>>>>conversion program. I ended up with 512 kb clusters on the C drive
>>>>and 4 mb clusters on the D 38 gig and E 38 gig drives - all three 10K
>>>>rpm SCSI.
>>>>What is the problem with 512 kb clusters and is there a way to change
>>>>them to 4 kb clusters?
>>>
>>>
>>> Small clusters mean more reads for the same amount of data. On the other
>>> hand, the average wasted space per file is only 256 bytes (half the
>>> cluster size).
>>>
>>> Virtually everybody who knows how uses much larger cluster sizes (like
>>> 4k). You'll need a third-party program to migrate from 512 to anything
>>> else - XP has no native way to create or change cluster sizes other than
>>> the default 512.
>>
>> Which is a doggone shame. It'd be really prudent of MS to develop some
>> serious FS and OS management/maintenance tools instead of the
>> half-crippled things they ship by default, many obtained from 3rd party
>> developers anyway. But then MS probably doesn't care a whole lot about
>> such things, as long as they can still sell product.
>>
>> The only way I know of to reliably remedy cluster size issues natively
>> when going from FAT32 to NTFS is to backup everything, reformat as NTFS
>> and reinstall. IMO the native convert program should allow for cluster
>> resizing.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>


512 kb clusters