Win xp oem activation hits me clear as mud!



David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to build
my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from now
dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose fault
cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
heaven?

Thanks,
David

Keith AH
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
No you are incorrect

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> build
> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> now
> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
> am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> fault
> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> heaven?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
David Sewell wrote:
> I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of
> retail edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I
> used to build my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98
> upgrade purchases from now dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard
> fails, am I right in assuming I am supposed to buy a new motherboard
> and another copy of win xp,

Only if you are a sucker.

> thereby keeping up Bill (love him to
> bits) Gates to the life style he has become accustomed, just so that
> I can carry on using a single system that ain't moved anywhere and is
> only used by the single self same person, whose fault cannot be
> blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> heaven?

MS can disappear off the face of the earth today, and there is nothing
that could put a dent in the life style that Billy G. has become
accustomed.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Please, but you might tell me where I'm incorrect thanks, sir...
Genuine thanks from the UK!

David


"Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
news:u0JEedNWFHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> No you are incorrect
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> > edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> > build
> > my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> > now
> > dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming
I
> > am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> > keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> > accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> > moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> > fault
> > cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
motherboard
> > heaven?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
>
>

Carey Frisch [MVP]
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
You paid less for an OEM version and as a consequence you do not
receive the benefits of a Retail Version. OEM versions of Windows
XP are non-transferrable and if your motherboard dies, so does your
OEM license. Microsoft does not sell OEM versions to end-users,
only Retail Versions.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"David Sewell" wrote:

| I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
| edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to build
| my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from now
| dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
| am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
| keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
| accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
| moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose fault
| cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
| heaven?
|
| Thanks,
| David

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
You sound like a Linux troll!

Not much wrong with that!

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
ROBOT

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I am not sure what MS expects you to do (we debate this constantly here),
but some of our MVP's do believe you should bury your XP with the dead MoBo.
However, you are in no way compelled to do this.
Recently, my motherboard died, and I decided to Clean Install my OEM XP
because of the new hardware and other issues. Activation was no problem
whatsoever. Activation of an OEM installation after the death of a MoBo has
never been a problem. At worst, a 5 minute phone call would be required.
Keep in mind that the information linking your software license with your
hardware is only kept on the MS servers for 120 days. After that, it's a
clean slate. Let your common sense be your guide.


"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:#Cj39fNWFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> David Sewell wrote:
> > I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of
> > retail edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I
> > used to build my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98
> > upgrade purchases from now dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard
> > fails, am I right in assuming I am supposed to buy a new motherboard
> > and another copy of win xp,
>
> Only if you are a sucker.
>
> > thereby keeping up Bill (love him to
> > bits) Gates to the life style he has become accustomed, just so that
> > I can carry on using a single system that ain't moved anywhere and is
> > only used by the single self same person, whose fault cannot be
> > blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> > heaven?
>
> MS can disappear off the face of the earth today, and there is nothing
> that could put a dent in the life style that Billy G. has become
> accustomed.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
>

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
You got it.
Low-end Robot.

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d660b4$6ub$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> ROBOT
>
>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
David Sewell wrote:
> You sound like a Linux troll!
>
> Not much wrong with that!

Except the LinTrolls don't like me! LOL!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Keith AH
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
This is copied direct from the OEM license

Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your
customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for the
original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception of an
upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal
computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been
created and the license of new operating system software is required.
If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user license
agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by that EULA. The
EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user by the PC manufacturer
and relates only to rights for that software as installed on that particular
PC. The System Builder is required to support the software on that
individual PC. Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PC
with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component "left
standing" that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard
contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard
is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created.
The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected to support this
new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture.

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d65vto$mqc$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Please, but you might tell me where I'm incorrect thanks, sir...
> Genuine thanks from the UK!
>
> David
>
>
> "Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
> news:u0JEedNWFHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> No you are incorrect
>>
>> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> >I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of
>> >retail
>> > edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
>> > build
>> > my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
>> > now
>> > dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in
>> > assuming
> I
>> > am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp,
>> > thereby
>> > keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has
>> > become
>> > accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that
>> > ain't
>> > moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
>> > fault
>> > cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
> motherboard
>> > heaven?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation hits me
clear as mud!"

Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there should (if
it does not already exist) be an American version....
Sorry guys........

Bruce Chambers
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
David Sewell wrote:
> I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to build
> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from now
> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
> am supposed to buy a new motherboard


If the original is out of warranty, certainly. Unless you know someone
that's giving away motherboards?



> and another copy of win xp,
>


No, of course not. Where'd you ever get such a silly idea?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Keith AH wrote:
> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>
> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
> on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
> for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
> An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
> personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
> upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
> computer has been created and the license of new operating system
> software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is
> defective, you do NOT
> need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
> The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
> license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by
> that EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user
> by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software
> as installed on that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
> support the software on that individual PC. Understanding that end
> users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components,
> Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that
> would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains
> the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard
> is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially
> created. The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected
> to support this new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture.


Where did you get that, as it sounds like the System Builder License,
NOT the END USERS LICENSE AGREEMENT!

What is the difference?

The End User, like the OP, NEVER agreed to be held to the terms of the
SYSTEM BUILDERS LICENSE!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I have a theory that the microsoft help staff are as punch drunk as the rest
of us.


"

Keith AH
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Again the question was if the board dies do I have to get another copy this
is what an OEM would have to adhere to which is also then what the customer
by accepting the OEM copy would adhere to
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:ulW862NWFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Keith AH wrote:
>> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>>
>> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
>> on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
>> for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
>> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>> An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
>> personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
>> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
>> upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
>> computer has been created and the license of new operating system
>> software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is
>> defective, you do NOT
>> need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
>> The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
>> license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by
>> that EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user
>> by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software
>> as installed on that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
>> support the software on that individual PC. Understanding that end
>> users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components,
>> Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that
>> would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains
>> the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard
>> is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially
>> created. The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected
>> to support this new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture.
>
>
> Where did you get that, as it sounds like the System Builder License, NOT
> the END USERS LICENSE AGREEMENT!
>
> What is the difference?
>
> The End User, like the OP, NEVER agreed to be held to the terms of the
> SYSTEM BUILDERS LICENSE!
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
The wording in the post by Keith AH is not something you agreed to. Although
you are "your own OEM," you are not formally an OEM in the eyes of MS. That
is why it is clear as mud. You, by definition, "slip between the cracks."


"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d6619h$fg5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation hits me
> clear as mud!"
>
> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there should (if
> it does not already exist) be an American version....
> Sorry guys........
>
>

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:OOZ3JiNWFHA.376@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> You paid less for an OEM version and as a consequence you do not
> receive the benefits of a Retail Version. OEM versions of Windows
> XP are non-transferrable and if your motherboard dies, so does your
> OEM license. Microsoft does not sell OEM versions to end-users,
> only Retail Versions.

Horsepucky. It's the same computer. A motherboard does not a computer make.
Do you for some reason get pleasure out of misinforming people so they
think, incorrectly, that they should pay for the same thing again? Are you
rich?

Alias
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "David Sewell" wrote:
>
> | I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of
> retail
> | edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> build
> | my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> now
> | dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming
> I
> | am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> | keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> | accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> | moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> fault
> | cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
> motherboard
> | heaven?
> |
> | Thanks,
> | David
>

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should fail?
We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as I
see it.


"Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
news:eBjOT7NWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Again the question was if the board dies do I have to get another copy
this
> is what an OEM would have to adhere to which is also then what the
customer
> by accepting the OEM copy would adhere to
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
> news:ulW862NWFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> > Keith AH wrote:
> >> This is copied direct from the OEM license
> >>
> >> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
> >> on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
> >> for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
> >> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
> >> An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
> >> personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
> >> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
> >> upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
> >> computer has been created and the license of new operating system
> >> software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is
> >> defective, you do NOT
> >> need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
> >> The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
> >> license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by
> >> that EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user
> >> by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software
> >> as installed on that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
> >> support the software on that individual PC. Understanding that end
> >> users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components,
> >> Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that
> >> would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains
> >> the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard
> >> is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially
> >> created. The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected
> >> to support this new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture.
> >
> >
> > Where did you get that, as it sounds like the System Builder License,
NOT
> > the END USERS LICENSE AGREEMENT!
> >
> > What is the difference?
> >
> > The End User, like the OP, NEVER agreed to be held to the terms of the
> > SYSTEM BUILDERS LICENSE!
> >
> > --
> > Peace!
> > Kurt
> > Self-anointed Moderator
> > microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> > http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> > "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> > "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
> >
>
>

Keith AH
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
No
That is why if the board fails you may replace it
"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d6632i$t5m$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
> give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should fail?
> We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as I
> see it.
>
>
> "Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
> news:eBjOT7NWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Again the question was if the board dies do I have to get another copy
> this
>> is what an OEM would have to adhere to which is also then what the
> customer
>> by accepting the OEM copy would adhere to
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
>> news:ulW862NWFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> > Keith AH wrote:
>> >> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>> >>
>> >> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
>> >> on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
>> >> for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
>> >> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>> >> An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
>> >> personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
>> >> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
>> >> upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
>> >> computer has been created and the license of new operating system
>> >> software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is
>> >> defective, you do NOT
>> >> need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
>> >> The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
>> >> license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by
>> >> that EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user
>> >> by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software
>> >> as installed on that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
>> >> support the software on that individual PC. Understanding that end
>> >> users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components,
>> >> Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that
>> >> would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains
>> >> the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard
>> >> is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially
>> >> created. The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected
>> >> to support this new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture.
>> >
>> >
>> > Where did you get that, as it sounds like the System Builder License,
> NOT
>> > the END USERS LICENSE AGREEMENT!
>> >
>> > What is the difference?
>> >
>> > The End User, like the OP, NEVER agreed to be held to the terms of the
>> > SYSTEM BUILDERS LICENSE!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peace!
>> > Kurt
>> > Self-anointed Moderator
>> > microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
>> > http://microscum.com/mscommunity
>> > "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
>> > "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote

> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
> give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should fail?
> We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as I
> see it.

Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been more
than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read this
first:

http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/

Alias
>
>
> "Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
> news:eBjOT7NWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Again the question was if the board dies do I have to get another copy
> this
>> is what an OEM would have to adhere to which is also then what the
> customer
>> by accepting the OEM copy would adhere to
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
>> news:ulW862NWFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> > Keith AH wrote:
>> >> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>> >>
>> >> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
>> >> on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
>> >> for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
>> >> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>> >> An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
>> >> personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
>> >> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
>> >> upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
>> >> computer has been created and the license of new operating system
>> >> software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is
>> >> defective, you do NOT
>> >> need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
>> >> The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
>> >> license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by
>> >> that EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user
>> >> by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software
>> >> as installed on that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
>> >> support the software on that individual PC. Understanding that end
>> >> users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components,
>> >> Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that
>> >> would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains
>> >> the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard
>> >> is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially
>> >> created. The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected
>> >> to support this new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture.
>> >
>> >
>> > Where did you get that, as it sounds like the System Builder License,
> NOT
>> > the END USERS LICENSE AGREEMENT!
>> >
>> > What is the difference?
>> >
>> > The End User, like the OP, NEVER agreed to be held to the terms of the
>> > SYSTEM BUILDERS LICENSE!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peace!
>> > Kurt
>> > Self-anointed Moderator
>> > microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
>> > http://microscum.com/mscommunity
>> > "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
>> > "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Keith AH wrote:

> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>
> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your
> customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for the
> original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception of an
> upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.

<snip>

But that is not what the End User has access to, nor do I if I go to
Wal-Mart or Staples and buy a copy of of WinXP Pro OEM release.

This is from the EULA for OEM XP Pro:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
(either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").

And here:

"The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
conditions of this EULA:
* Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."

Nowhere in that EULA is the word "motherboard". "the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates" could mean every and
anything.

End users are not prohibited by the EULA from changing any and
everything in the computer system. Most new PCs I see have the COA
affixed to the case. Theoretically I could gut the whole damn thing and
rebuild it inside with anything/everything else different. As long as
that COA and case stay together there is no EULA violation that I can
see. Why heck, it would sure look like the same computer, too.

Steve

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
If you are referring to the MVP's (who are not MS staff), yes, the ones with
brains realize that this is a very ambiguous, confusing topic.
If you are referring to MS Support staff, they are trained not to think
about it at all!

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d662fu$8h5$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I have a theory that the microsoft help staff are as punch drunk as the
rest
> of us.
>
>
> "
>
>

Carey Frisch [MVP]
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
No, but correct and honest with my answer!

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Alias" wrote:

|
| Horsepucky. It's the same computer. A motherboard does not a computer make.
| Do you for some reason get pleasure out of misinforming people so they
| think, incorrectly, that they should pay for the same thing again? Are you
| rich?
|
| Alias



---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
Tested on: 5/14/2005 7:13:06 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Carey Frisch [MVP]
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
No. Just replace the motherboard with an identical motherboard!

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"David Sewell" wrote:

| Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
| give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should fail?
| We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as I
| see it.



---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
Tested on: 5/14/2005 7:14:07 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Richard Urban
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
No one forced you to buy O.E.M..

You are just mad because YOU didn't do your homework!

BTW, I supply a retail version of Windows XP with every computer I build for
my customers. I would never place them in a predicament!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> build
> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> now
> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
> am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> fault
> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> heaven?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
> No, but correct and honest with my answer!

http://microscum.com/carey/

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote

> No one forced you to buy O.E.M..

So what? I have three computers, each with an OEM on them. Plan to upgrade
the motherboard, CPU, RAM and video card on one of them and expect no
problems or predicaments at all!

>
> You are just mad because YOU didn't do your homework!

He has nothing to be mad about. He can reinstall it on a new motherboard.
>
> BTW, I supply a retail version of Windows XP with every computer I build
> for my customers. I would never place them in a predicament!
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban

What predicament?

Alias
>
> aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
>
> If you knew as much as you think you know,
> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
>> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
>> build
>> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
>> now
>> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming
>> I
>> am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
>> keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
>> accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
>> moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
>> fault
>> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
>> heaven?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David
>>
>>
>
>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
David Sewell wrote:
> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp
> should give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard
> should fail? We could go on like this forever, and this is where the
> problem lies as I see it.
>

My last answer in this thread.

Don't worry, be happy!

Even if MS thinks you need to buy another copy of XP if you replace your
motherboard (and even MS employees don't agree with that
interpretation,) they will never know you changed your motherboard,
unless YOU tell them. With activation, MS cannot tell what hardware has
actually changed.

Short answer, DON'T TELL THEM.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
David Sewell wrote:

> I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation hits me
> clear as mud!"
>
> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there should (if
> it does not already exist) be an American version....
> Sorry guys........
>
>

Plain english society? Is there such a thing? Sounds cool. I'm gonna
look it up...

Is this what you mean?

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/introduction.html

Steve

Keith AH
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a computerfrom an
Oem that has a preinstalled version on it

I was giving what the license states and what an OEM installer is suppose to
agree to to be able to sell an Oem version.
Since this was about an Oem version of the software.

"Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
news:Xuwhe.692$X92.140@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Keith AH wrote:
>
>> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>>
>> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on
>> your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
>> the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception
>> of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>
> <snip>
>
> But that is not what the End User has access to, nor do I if I go to
> Wal-Mart or Staples and buy a copy of of WinXP Pro OEM release.
>
> This is from the EULA for OEM XP Pro:
>
> Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
>
> IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
> (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
> computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
> the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
> Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
> on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").
>
> And here:
>
> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
> the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
> HARDWARE is a computer system component.
>
> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
> rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
> conditions of this EULA:
> * Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
> provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
> and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."
>
> Nowhere in that EULA is the word "motherboard". "the
> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates" could mean every and
> anything.
>
> End users are not prohibited by the EULA from changing any and everything
> in the computer system. Most new PCs I see have the COA affixed to the
> case. Theoretically I could gut the whole damn thing and rebuild it inside
> with anything/everything else different. As long as that COA and case stay
> together there is no EULA violation that I can see. Why heck, it would
> sure look like the same computer, too.
>
> Steve
>

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Obvious

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
No...I'm just mad because I'm confused...and don't try to be arrogant... it
might not suit you..ha ha
"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eCdNQQOWFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> No one forced you to buy O.E.M..
>
> You are just mad because YOU didn't do your homework!
>
> BTW, I supply a retail version of Windows XP with every computer I build
for
> my customers. I would never place them in a predicament!
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
>
> aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)
>
> If you knew as much as you think you know,
> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> > edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> > build
> > my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> > now
> > dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming
I
> > am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> > keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> > accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> > moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> > fault
> > cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
motherboard
> > heaven?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
>
>

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
"...I would never place them in a predicament!"
Correction: You would never place *yourself* in a predicament!

Richard Urban wrote:
> No one forced you to buy O.E.M..
>
> You are just mad because YOU didn't do your homework!
>
> BTW, I supply a retail version of Windows XP with every computer I
> build for my customers. I would never place them in a predicament!
>
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of
>> retail edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items
>> I used to build
>> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases
>> from now
>> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in
>> assuming I am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of
>> win xp, thereby keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life
>> style he has become accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a
>> single system that ain't moved anywhere and is only used by the
>> single self same person, whose fault
>> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
>> motherboard heaven?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David

Ken Blake
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In news:uaLIuZOWFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl,
Keith AH <Somebody@somewher.com> typed:

> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a
> computerfrom an Oem that has a preinstalled version on it


No, this is not correct. There are two kinds of OEM versions:

1. Those that come preinstalled on new computers sold by the
larger OEMs.

2. Generic OEM versions that can be sold with almost any piece of
non-peripheral hardware. These are identical to the retail
version except for the extra restrictions in the licensing
agreement.

You can readily buy an OEM version of the second type. Whether
Walmart or Staples specifically sell those types, I don't know
for sure, but they are widely available from many sources.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
"Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
news:uaLIuZOWFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a computerfrom
> an Oem that has a preinstalled version on it

Wrong. I have three computers that I built myself and all three have OEM
versions installed. Oops.

>
> I was giving what the license states and what an OEM installer is suppose
> to agree to to be able to sell an Oem version.
> Since this was about an Oem version of the software.

There are OEMs and then there are OEMs.

Alias
>
> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
> news:Xuwhe.692$X92.140@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Keith AH wrote:
>>
>>> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>>>
>>> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on
>>> your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
>>> the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
>>> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> But that is not what the End User has access to, nor do I if I go to
>> Wal-Mart or Staples and buy a copy of of WinXP Pro OEM release.
>>
>> This is from the EULA for OEM XP Pro:
>>
>> Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
>> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
>> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
>> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
>>
>> IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
>> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
>> (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
>> computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
>> the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
>> Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
>> on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").
>>
>> And here:
>>
>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
>> the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
>> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
>> HARDWARE is a computer system component.
>>
>> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
>> rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
>> conditions of this EULA:
>> * Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
>> provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
>> and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."
>>
>> Nowhere in that EULA is the word "motherboard". "the
>> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates" could mean every and
>> anything.
>>
>> End users are not prohibited by the EULA from changing any and everything
>> in the computer system. Most new PCs I see have the COA affixed to the
>> case. Theoretically I could gut the whole damn thing and rebuild it
>> inside with anything/everything else different. As long as that COA and
>> case stay together there is no EULA violation that I can see. Why heck,
>> it would sure look like the same computer, too.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>

Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In article <uaLIuZOWFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
Somebody@somewher.com says...
> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a computerfrom an
> Oem that has a preinstalled version on it

Actually Walmart does sell OEM Windows XP from their website, but it
also has a clear link to the OEM site for additional information.

It also clearly calls it OEM and states that it must be purchased with
Hardware.

--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Keith AH
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
If you go to a Walmart or staples store they do not have an OEM version to
buy
I did not state that you could not buy the Generic version of the Oem that
is what I sell

"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:u4iDfrOWFHA.548@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> In news:uaLIuZOWFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl,
> Keith AH <Somebody@somewher.com> typed:
>
>> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a
>> computerfrom an Oem that has a preinstalled version on it
>
>
> No, this is not correct. There are two kinds of OEM versions:
>
> 1. Those that come preinstalled on new computers sold by the larger OEMs.
>
> 2. Generic OEM versions that can be sold with almost any piece of
> non-peripheral hardware. These are identical to the retail version except
> for the extra restrictions in the licensing agreement.
>
> You can readily buy an OEM version of the second type. Whether Walmart or
> Staples specifically sell those types, I don't know for sure, but they are
> widely available from many sources.
>
> --
> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
> Please reply to the newsgroup
>

Iceni
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
On Sat, 14 May 2005 23:40:46 +0100, David Sewell wrote:

> I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to build
> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from now
> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
> am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose fault
> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> heaven?

Few months ago my motherboard developed a fault and needed replacing.
The firm that I deal with for computer gear informed me that there was
a strong possibility that I would need to purchase another OEM copy of
XP to replace the one that was presently installed.

Before installing the new motherboard I contacted the local Microsoft
office and asked them the legal situation in this case. One manager
informed that I would need to purchase a new copy, but another manager
said to just replace the motherboard and reactive over the phone. (It
appears that even Microsoft has difficultly's in understanding the
rules pertaining to OEM XP).

I changed the motherboard, slipstreamed my OEM XP copy with SP2 and
done a repair installation. Everything worked okay and I just waited
for a reactivation notice. This was about six months ago and as of yet
I still haven't had to reactivate.

The whole situation with OEM versions is a unclear, and further talks
with a senior Microsoft employee he admitted that no one is 100% sure
of the rules with OEM versions that have been purchased to owner
builders.

When I purchased an OEM copy, I was made aware that there was
limitations between OEM and a full retail copy. For instance I knew
that there would be no Microsoft support - unable to use the software
to upgrade from - the copy would need to be sold with the machine when
and if it was sold. No mention was made about not be able to upgrade
or change faulty hardware.

It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
are pertaining to OEM copies.

Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
mytribe@home.invalid says...
> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
> users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
> are pertaining to OEM copies.

It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.

One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board is
defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you can
change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate and be
properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and replaced a
non-defective motherboard, that would violate the systems builders OEM
agreement.

--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Iceni
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:59:06 -0500, Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> You paid less for an OEM version and as a consequence you do not
> receive the benefits of a Retail Version. OEM versions of Windows
> XP are non-transferrable and if your motherboard dies, so does your
> OEM license. Microsoft does not sell OEM versions to end-users,
> only Retail Versions.

If Microsoft doesn't sell OEM versions to end-users, where do people
that build their own machines get their copies from?

I paid less for my OEM copy because I can't use it for an upgrade to a
newer version - I can't get Microsoft support - and the software has
to go with the computer when sold or given away.

I think this information is incorrect "motherboard dies so does your
OEM licence".

Gene K
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Company legal contracts [EULA] are written by teams of lawyers. If you ever
find one written in plain easily understood English [Italian, Polish, etc]
either on this or any other side of the Atlantic, I will never believe that
it is real. I plainly understand that an OEM Windows license is limited to
the first computer upon which it is installed. If the Microsoft EULA
displayed is correct, you can upgrade about any part of it [except the
Motherboard] at your will. If the motherboard is upgraded, OEM license is
revoked UNLESS the original board burned out and you replace it with one
Microsoft will approve in extending the OEM License. In other words, call
them before you buy and install the motherboard since there are going to be
limitations imposed. The only reason to buy an OEM license is to save some
money but then you have to accept the ensuing limitations.
Gene K

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d6619h$fg5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation hits me
> clear as mud!"
>
> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there should (if
> it does not already exist) be an American version....
> Sorry guys........
>
>

Gene K
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
I agree if it is still available in the market. If not, call Microsoft
BEFORE you buy a new one
"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:O$$gEMOWFHA.1160@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> No. Just replace the motherboard with an identical motherboard!
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "David Sewell" wrote:
>
> | Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
> | give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
> fail?
> | We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as
> I
> | see it.
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
> Tested on: 5/14/2005 7:14:07 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Gene K
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Maybe not at Staples or Office Depot, but you can buy them on line from many
re-sellers.
Gene K
"Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
news:uaLIuZOWFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a computerfrom
> an Oem that has a preinstalled version on it
>
> I was giving what the license states and what an OEM installer is suppose
> to agree to to be able to sell an Oem version.
> Since this was about an Oem version of the software.
>
> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
> news:Xuwhe.692$X92.140@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Keith AH wrote:
>>
>>> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>>>
>>> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on
>>> your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
>>> the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
>>> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> But that is not what the End User has access to, nor do I if I go to
>> Wal-Mart or Staples and buy a copy of of WinXP Pro OEM release.
>>
>> This is from the EULA for OEM XP Pro:
>>
>> Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
>> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
>> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
>> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
>>
>> IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
>> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
>> (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
>> computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
>> the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
>> Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
>> on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").
>>
>> And here:
>>
>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
>> the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
>> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
>> HARDWARE is a computer system component.
>>
>> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
>> rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
>> conditions of this EULA:
>> * Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
>> provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
>> and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."
>>
>> Nowhere in that EULA is the word "motherboard". "the
>> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates" could mean every and
>> anything.
>>
>> End users are not prohibited by the EULA from changing any and everything
>> in the computer system. Most new PCs I see have the COA affixed to the
>> case. Theoretically I could gut the whole damn thing and rebuild it
>> inside with anything/everything else different. As long as that COA and
>> case stay together there is no EULA violation that I can see. Why heck,
>> it would sure look like the same computer, too.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
No. You do not have to accept the ensuing limitations. Only a fool would do
so.
There are enough limitations without one that makes zero sense.

Gene K wrote:
> Company legal contracts [EULA] are written by teams of lawyers. If
> you ever find one written in plain easily understood English
> [Italian, Polish, etc] either on this or any other side of the
> Atlantic, I will never believe that it is real. I plainly understand
> that an OEM Windows license is limited to the first computer upon
> which it is installed. If the Microsoft EULA displayed is correct,
> you can upgrade about any part of it [except the Motherboard] at your
> will. If the motherboard is upgraded, OEM license is revoked UNLESS
> the original board burned out and you replace it with one Microsoft
> will approve in extending the OEM License. In other words, call them
> before you buy and install the motherboard since there are going to
> be limitations imposed. The only reason to buy an OEM license is to
> save some money but then you have to
> accept the ensuing limitations. Gene K
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d6619h$fg5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation hits
>> me clear as mud!"
>>
>> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there
>> should (if it does not already exist) be an American version....
>> Sorry guys........

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Leythos wrote:
> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
>> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the
>> rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>
> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>
> One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
> replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board is
> defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you can
> change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate and be
> properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and replaced a
> non-defective motherboard,

that would violate the systems builders OEM agreement...
>

To which the end-user has never agreed.
If I perform CPR in an emergency, I am not bound by the Hippocratic Oath.

Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In article <#WeUPbPWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>, "T. Waters" <@$%$%
#^@jdjgkl.com> says...
> Leythos wrote:
> > In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > mytribe@home.invalid says...
> >> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
> >> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the
> >> rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
> >
> > It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> > builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
> >
> > One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
> > replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board is
> > defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you can
> > change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate and be
> > properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and replaced a
> > non-defective motherboard,
>
> that would violate the systems builders OEM agreement...
> >
>
> To which the end-user has never agreed.
> If I perform CPR in an emergency, I am not bound by the Hippocratic Oath.

And your comment doesn't change anything. As I said, there is
information, there is personal choice, and there is ignorance. It's up
to you as to which you follow.

--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Leythos wrote:
> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
>> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the
>> rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>
> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>
> One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
> replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board is
> defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you can
> change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate and be
> properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and replaced a
> non-defective motherboard, that would violate the systems builders OEM
> agreement.
>
> --

I lied about my last post being the last post of mine in this thread.

No End User gets the opportunity to agree or disagree with the
information at the System Builder OEM web site, and that web page is not
a valid contract, license, or oath!

THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT ARE CLEAR AND INDISPUTABLE!

You are a Microsoft Partner, and have a total conflict of interest to
say whatever you think MS wants you to say!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In article <eqqAkhPWFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>,
dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org says...
> Leythos wrote:
> > In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > mytribe@home.invalid says...
> >> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
> >> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the
> >> rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
> >
> > It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> > builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
> >
> > One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
> > replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board is
> > defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you can
> > change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate and be
> > properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and replaced a
> > non-defective motherboard, that would violate the systems builders OEM
> > agreement.
> >
> > --
>
> I lied about my last post being the last post of mine in this thread.
>
> No End User gets the opportunity to agree or disagree with the
> information at the System Builder OEM web site, and that web page is not
> a valid contract, license, or oath!
>
> THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT ARE CLEAR AND INDISPUTABLE!
>
> You are a Microsoft Partner, and have a total conflict of interest to
> say whatever you think MS wants you to say!

Actually, you're only partly right, I'm own a company that is a MS
Partner, but I don't have any vested interest. We build solutions on any
platform and do what is best the for client and their business.

I never said that the end-user agreed to anything, and you can't point
to where I did (so stop with the BS posts). I said the information is
available, and it's up to the user to do with the information what they
want.

If the OEM user is a "System Builder" or a member of the OEM program,
they are fully aware of the restrictions. If they are an OEM purchaser,
it's up to the OEM supplier to inform them. Sheesh, you can't argue with
that.

--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Iceni
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
On Sun, 15 May 2005 01:48:18 GMT, Leythos wrote:

> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
>> users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
>> are pertaining to OEM copies.
>
> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.

I'm not concerned with OEM builders - my posting dealt with home
computer builders. It's obvious that you are just as confused as
everyone else and just as ignorant.

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Leythos wrote:
> In article <eqqAkhPWFHA.584@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>,
> dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org says...
>> Leythos wrote:
>>> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
>>>> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what
>>>> the rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>>
>>> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
>>> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>>>
>>> One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
>>> replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board
>>> is defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you
>>> can change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate
>>> and be properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and
>>> replaced a non-defective motherboard, that would violate the
>>> systems builders OEM agreement.
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> I lied about my last post being the last post of mine in this thread.
>>
>> No End User gets the opportunity to agree or disagree with the
>> information at the System Builder OEM web site, and that web page is
>> not a valid contract, license, or oath!
>>
>> THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT ARE CLEAR AND INDISPUTABLE!
>>
>> You are a Microsoft Partner, and have a total conflict of interest to
>> say whatever you think MS wants you to say!
>
> Actually, you're only partly right, I'm own a company that is a MS
> Partner, but I don't have any vested interest. We build solutions on
> any platform and do what is best the for client and their business.

LOL! You own a company that is a MS partner, so that is you conflict of
interest in answering questions here! And you aren't here to help your
customers!

> I never said that the end-user agreed to anything, and you can't point
> to where I did (so stop with the BS posts). I said the information is
> available, and it's up to the user to do with the information what
> they want.

"It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant -the OEM
builders site is very clear about the OEM rules."

Where is it implied that "it's up to the the user to do with the
information what they want?"

Seems like you saying that anyone that thinks those SYSTEM BUILDER RULES
are unclear is ignorant, not that it is up to the user, you Microsoft
shilling partner!

> If the OEM user is a "System Builder" or a member of the OEM program,
> they are fully aware of the restrictions. If they are an OEM
> purchaser, it's up to the OEM supplier to inform them. Sheesh, you
> can't argue with that.

Yes, I can! Why would the END USER need to be informed of the rules
that the SYSTEM BUILDER IS OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW?! NO WHERE IN MS'S OEM
END USERS LICENSE AGREEMENT DOES IT SAY, IMPLY, OR INTIMATE THAT THE END
USER IS BOUND BY ANY OF THE RULES THAT THEIR SYSTEM BUILDER IS BOUND TO!

You are lower than the bottom of the scum barrel, Lameboy, for trying to
confuse the issue about the SYSTEM BUILDER LICENSE somehow being
tranfered to the END USER! And that is all you are doing. Trying to
muddy the waters!

Like I already said the only things that are really clear is the no END
USER ever agreed to be bound by the words on the SYSTEM BUILDERS web
site, and that the crap on the SYSTEM BUILDER site is not even a a valid
contract, license, or oath!

One more thing is clear! You are a total MicroSCUMBAG!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Iceni wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2005 01:48:18 GMT, Leythos wrote:
>
>> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
>>> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what
>>> the rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>
>> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
>> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>
> I'm not concerned with OEM builders - my posting dealt with home
> computer builders. It's obvious that you are just as confused as
> everyone else and just as ignorant.

No, he is muddying the waters on purpose. He knows this thread is NOT
about MS certified System Builders, which his web site is geared toward.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

HeyBub
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Iceni wrote:
>
> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
> users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
> are pertaining to OEM copies.

I agree that things are not as clear as they could be. However, speaking as
a Micros~1 stockholder, you can't go wrong by just buying a new retail copy
of XP. All this to-ing and fro-ing, debates, uncertainity, potential legal
hassles, name-calling, down-time, and the rest can just disappear for around
$300.

Might as well get Office XP at the same time. You might even get a discount!

And I hear the new X-Box is about ready.

I also recommend the Micros~1 mouse.

DevilsPGD
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
<aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:

>
>"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>
>> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
>> give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should fail?
>> We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as I
>> see it.
>
>Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been more
>than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read this
>first:
>
>http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/

Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed on the
OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.

Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the moment
your payment is accepted.


--
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts
have no place in organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

DevilsPGD
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In message <ue9m22OWFHA.1432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> "Keith AH"
<Somebody@somewher.com> wrote:

>If you go to a Walmart or staples store they do not have an OEM version to
>buy
>I did not state that you could not buy the Generic version of the Oem that
>is what I sell

Nope, Walmart doesn't sell Windows XP Home OEM.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1957319

Nor do they well Windows XP Pro OEM either...
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1957320

I see you've thought this one out.


--
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts
have no place in organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

DevilsPGD
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In message <uPDr5TOWFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> "kurttrail"
<dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:

>Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>> No, but correct and honest with my answer!
>
>http://microscum.com/carey/

Well Carey... You know you're doing something right when you get
somebody upset enough to create a page like that just for you.


--
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts
have no place in organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Jupiter Jones [MVP]
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
David;
Is it still the same computer?
Microsoft has been vague as to exactly how far you can go before it is a new
computer.
A replacement motherboard is a repair or upgrade, not a new computer so you
should be OK.

However since you did buy OEM, according to the EULA you agreed, you can not
move this license to a completely different computer.
But as suggested, this does not apply in your case.

But did you pay to much for your OEM?
"just pennies short of retail edition price"
Normally there is $50 - $100 difference between OEM and retail, that is a
lot of pennies.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> build
> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> now
> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
> am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> fault
> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> heaven?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
I never guessed my question/remarks would make such a longish thread :-) I
think I aptly named the subject. I am now as confused as ever. When I got
the generic win xp home oem cd I was not informed of the limitations. It
never saved me much money, so I guess everyone except me gained something.
And even though I have previous win 95/98 cd's, I now think, in hind sight
should have got the retail upgrade of win xp home. Is oem a bum deal?

Thanks for your comments.

David

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
build
> my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
now
> dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I
> am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
fault
> cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to motherboard
> heaven?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
I got it from here:
http://www.itcomputer.co.uk/category.php?CAT_ID=11&offset=10

David


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:%23MrDbzRWFHA.4076@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> David;
> Is it still the same computer?
> Microsoft has been vague as to exactly how far you can go before it is a
new
> computer.
> A replacement motherboard is a repair or upgrade, not a new computer so
you
> should be OK.
>
> However since you did buy OEM, according to the EULA you agreed, you can
not
> move this license to a completely different computer.
> But as suggested, this does not apply in your case.
>
> But did you pay to much for your OEM?
> "just pennies short of retail edition price"
> Normally there is $50 - $100 difference between OEM and retail, that is a
> lot of pennies.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of retail
> > edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items I used to
> > build
> > my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98 upgrade purchases from
> > now
> > dead previous pc's. So, if my motherboard fails, am I right in assuming
I
> > am supposed to buy a new motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby
> > keeping up Bill (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become
> > accustomed, just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't
> > moved anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
> > fault
> > cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
motherboard
> > heaven?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
>
>

NotMe
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
I buy the OEM versions, always with a case; not with a motherboard or hard
drive (or anything that is subject to failure or upgrading). I haven't had a
case burn out yet...and I like nice oversized towers, many times server
cases.
It is my opinion that as long as I am putting hardware into that case, it IS
the same computer and I have every right to continue using the OEM license.
From what you said...that you bought Windows OEM and the componets from the
same supplier...who decides what the qualifying hardware was? I think YOU
do! Nice Case!!
--
For evil to prosper requires only that good men remain silent!

"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d66t9l$tse$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>I never guessed my question/remarks would make such a longish thread :-)
> I think I aptly named the subject. I am now as confused as ever. When I
> got
> the generic win xp home oem cd I was not informed of the limitations. It
> never saved me much money, so I guess everyone except me gained something.
> And even though I have previous win 95/98 cd's, I now think, in hind
> sight
> should have got the retail upgrade of win xp home. Is oem a bum deal?
> Thanks for your comments.
> David

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
"Gene K" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:eduWhFPWFHA.3488@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Company legal contracts [EULA] are written by teams of lawyers. If you
> ever find one written in plain easily understood English [Italian, Polish,
> etc] either on this or any other side of the Atlantic, I will never
> believe that it is real. I plainly understand that an OEM Windows license
> is limited to the first computer upon which it is installed. If the
> Microsoft EULA displayed is correct, you can upgrade about any part of it
> [except the Motherboard] at your will. If the motherboard is upgraded, OEM
> license is revoked UNLESS the original board burned out and you replace it
> with one Microsoft will approve in extending the OEM License. In other
> words, call them before you buy and install the motherboard since there
> are going to be limitations imposed. The only reason to buy an OEM license
> is to save some money but then you have to accept the ensuing limitations.
> Gene K

My EULAs, both in Spanish and English do not mention a motherboard and
that's what I am going to go by. I plan to upgrade a perfectly good
motherboard and I don't plan to buy another XP because I ALREADY HAVE ONE
that works perfectly. I also plan to upgrade the CPU, RAM and video card. If
I have to make a call to activate, the only information I will give is, "a
bubble popped up saying I have to activate and my number is xxxxxxxxxxxxx
...." because that's all that's required for me to divulge about my computer.
I will also get the name of the person who answers the phone in case he
decided to get uppity and hang up on me for refusing to give any more
information.

Proof that I only have to give this information:

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details

What you posted is unadulterated FUD and, well, a lie.

Activation was created to stop piracy (although it failed), not to prevent
someone from upgrading their computer.

Alias
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d6619h$fg5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation hits me
>> clear as mud!"
>>
>> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there should
>> (if
>> it does not already exist) be an American version....
>> Sorry guys........
>>
>>
>
>

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
"Gene K" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote

>I agree if it is still available in the market. If not, call Microsoft
>BEFORE you buy a new one

What for? Call MS only if you have to to get it activated and give no more
information other than the 50 digit number and that a bubble popped up
saying you have to activate.

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details

Alias
> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O$$gEMOWFHA.1160@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> No. Just replace the motherboard with an identical motherboard!
>>
>> --
>> Carey Frisch
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows XP - Shell/User
>> Microsoft Newsgroups
>>
>> Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "David Sewell" wrote:
>>
>> | Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp
>> should
>> | give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
>> fail?
>> | We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as
>> I
>> | see it.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 05/12/2005
>> Tested on: 5/14/2005 7:14:07 PM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
"Gene K" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:eLQgkLPWFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Maybe not at Staples or Office Depot, but you can buy them on line from
> many re-sellers.
> Gene K

In Spain, most stores ONLY offer OEMs. Man, are you uninformed. How many
copies of XP have you got lying around due to your ignorance or do you
stupidly buy retail?

Alias
> "Keith AH" <Somebody@somewher.com> wrote in message
> news:uaLIuZOWFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a computerfrom
>> an Oem that has a preinstalled version on it
>>
>> I was giving what the license states and what an OEM installer is suppose
>> to agree to to be able to sell an Oem version.
>> Since this was about an Oem version of the software.
>>
>> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
>> news:Xuwhe.692$X92.140@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>> Keith AH wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is copied direct from the OEM license
>>>>
>>>> Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on
>>>> your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
>>>> the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
>>>> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> But that is not what the End User has access to, nor do I if I go to
>>> Wal-Mart or Staples and buy a copy of of WinXP Pro OEM release.
>>>
>>> This is from the EULA for OEM XP Pro:
>>>
>>> Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
>>> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
>>> Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
>>> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
>>>
>>> IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
>>> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
>>> (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>>> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
>>> computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
>>> the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
>>> Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
>>> on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").
>>>
>>> And here:
>>>
>>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
>>> the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
>>> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
>>> HARDWARE is a computer system component.
>>>
>>> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
>>> rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
>>> conditions of this EULA:
>>> * Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
>>> provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
>>> and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."
>>>
>>> Nowhere in that EULA is the word "motherboard". "the
>>> computer system with which the HARDWARE operates" could mean every and
>>> anything.
>>>
>>> End users are not prohibited by the EULA from changing any and
>>> everything in the computer system. Most new PCs I see have the COA
>>> affixed to the case. Theoretically I could gut the whole damn thing and
>>> rebuild it inside with anything/everything else different. As long as
>>> that COA and case stay together there is no EULA violation that I can
>>> see. Why heck, it would sure look like the same computer, too.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
"DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:67pd8193t121bid9co2gvjdqai7rstv43l@news.readfreenews.net...
> In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
> <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>
>>> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
>>> give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
>>> fail?
>>> We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as
>>> I
>>> see it.
>>
>>Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been more
>>than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read this
>>first:
>>
>>http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/
>
> Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed on the
> OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.

Sure it does. You might want to read this too:

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>
> Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the moment
> your payment is accepted.

I agree but my link had no additional terms.

Alias
>
>
> --
> Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts
> have no place in organized religion.
> -- Superintendent Chalmers

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
> David;
> Is it still the same computer?

It is still HIS computer. A motherboad is only one component.

It is useless on its own

> Microsoft has been vague as to exactly how far you can go before it
> is a new computer.

Contradictory would better characterized it!

> A replacement motherboard is a repair or upgrade, not a new computer
> so you should be OK.
>
> However since you did buy OEM, according to the EULA you agreed, you
> can not move this license to a completely different computer.
> But as suggested, this does not apply in your case.
>
> But did you pay to much for your OEM?
> "just pennies short of retail edition price"
> Normally there is $50 - $100 difference between OEM and retail, that
> is a lot of pennies.

I believe he was comparing it to the Retail Upgrade pricing.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
David Sewell wrote:
> Obvious
>
>

Are you always such a butthead when someone posts a positive response to
something you say?

Is there a Good Manners Society, too?

PUAR

Steve

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Keith AH wrote:

> You can not buy an OEM version at Staples or Walmart only a computerfrom an
> Oem that has a preinstalled version on it
>

Horsecrap:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1957320&cat=4452&type=19&dept=101831&path=0%3A101831%3A101837%3A228001%3A228505

> I was giving what the license states and what an OEM installer is suppose to
> agree to to be able to sell an Oem version.
> Since this was about an Oem version of the software.

It is not a license any end user agreed to, therefore irrelevant.

Steve

>
> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
> news:Xuwhe.692$X92.140@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>Keith AH wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This is copied direct from the OEM license
>>>
>>>Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on
>>>your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
>>>the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception
>>>of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>But that is not what the End User has access to, nor do I if I go to
>>Wal-Mart or Staples and buy a copy of of WinXP Pro OEM release.
>>
>>This is from the EULA for OEM XP Pro:
>>
>>Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
>>Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
>>Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
>>END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
>>
>>IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
>>License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
>>(either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>>manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
>>computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
>>the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
>>Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
>>on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").
>>
>>And here:
>>
>>"The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
>>the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
>>computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
>>HARDWARE is a computer system component.
>>
>>1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
>>rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
>>conditions of this EULA:
>>* Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
>>provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
>>and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER."
>>
>>Nowhere in that EULA is the word "motherboard". "the
>>computer system with which the HARDWARE operates" could mean every and
>>anything.
>>
>>End users are not prohibited by the EULA from changing any and everything
>>in the computer system. Most new PCs I see have the COA affixed to the
>>case. Theoretically I could gut the whole damn thing and rebuild it inside
>>with anything/everything else different. As long as that COA and case stay
>>together there is no EULA violation that I can see. Why heck, it would
>>sure look like the same computer, too.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
>
>

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Or a short and to the point society!

Point taken....are we all lovey dovey all of the time?


"Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
news:WZIhe.1908$Ri4.867@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> David Sewell wrote:
> > Obvious
> >
> >
>
> Are you always such a butthead when someone posts a positive response to
> something you say?
>
> Is there a Good Manners Society, too?
>
> PUAR
>
> Steve
>

David R. Norton MVP
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in:

> I never guessed my question/remarks would make such a longish
> thread :-) I think I aptly named the subject. I am now as
> confused as ever. When I got the generic win xp home oem cd I was
> not informed of the limitations. It never saved me much money, so
> I guess everyone except me gained something. And even though I
> have previous win 95/98 cd's, I now think, in hind sight should
> have got the retail upgrade of win xp home. Is oem a bum deal?

No, it's not a bum deal if you saved some money. As for your original
question, read Jupiter Jones' comments and ignore the rest.

--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
[color=blue]
> You paid less for an OEM version and as a consequence you do not
> receive the benefits of a Retail Version. OEM versions of Windows
> XP are non-transferrable and if your motherboard dies, so does your
> OEM license. Microsoft does not sell OEM versions to end-users,
> only Retail Versions.
>[/color]

Where does the word "motherboard" appear in the XP Pro OEM EULA?

It defines "HARDWARE" here:

License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
(either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE").

and "COMPUTER" here:

The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component.

That could mean _any_ component that is part of the computer that the
software is installed on.

Heck, don't take my word for it, here's the whole XP Pro OEM EULA. Find
the word "motherboard" in it.

*****************************************************************

Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you
(either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or
computer system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired
the Microsoft software product(s) identified on the
Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or
on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE"). The
SOFTWARE includes Microsoft computer software, and may include
associated media, printed materials, "online" or electronic
documentation, and Internet based services. Note, however,
that any software, documentation, or web services that are
included in the SOFTWARE, or accessible via the SOFTWARE, and
are accompanied by their own license agreements or terms of
use are governed by such agreements rather than this EULA.
The terms of a printed paper EULA, which may accompany the
SOFTWARE, supersede the terms of any on-screen EULA. This
EULA is valid and grants the end-user rights ONLY if the
SOFTWARE is genuine and a genuine Certificate of Authenticity
for the SOFTWARE is included. For more information on
identifying whether your software is genuine, please see
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell[/url].

By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise
using the SOFTWARE, you agree to be bound by the terms of this
EULA. If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may
not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact
Manufacturer for instructions on return of
the unused product(s) for a refund in accordance with
Manufacturer's return policies.
SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
conditions of this EULA:
* Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access, display
and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on the COMPUTER.
The SOFTWARE may not be used by more than two (2) processors
at any one time on the COMPUTER, unless a higher number is
indicated on the Certificate of Authenticity. You may permit
a maximum of ten (10) ("Connection Maximum") computers or
other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to the
COMPUTER to utilize one or more of the following services of
the SOFTWARE: File services, Print services, Internet
Information services, and remote access (including connection
sharing and telephony services). The ten (10) Connection
Maximum includes any indirect connections made through
"multiplexing" or other software or hardware which pools or
aggregates connections. Except as otherwise permitted herein,
you may not use the Device to use, access, display or run the
SOFTWARE, the SOFTWARE's User Interface or other executable
software residing on the COMPUTER. This ten connection
maximum does not apply to any other uses of the Product.
* Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS
LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR
USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS.
The SOFTWARE is licensed with the COMPUTER as a single
integrated product and may only be used with the COMPUTER. If
the SOFTWARE is not accompanied by HARDWARE, you may not use
the SOFTWARE. You may permanently transfer all of your rights
under this EULA only as part of a permanent sale or transfer
of the COMPUTER, provided you retain no copies, if you
transfer the SOFTWARE (including all component parts, the
media, any upgrades, this EULA and the Certificate of
Authenticity), and the recipient agrees to the terms of this
EULA. If the SOFTWARE is an upgrade, any transfer must also
include all prior versions of the SOFTWARE.
* Mandatory Activation. THIS SOFTWARE
CONTAINS TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES THAT ARE
DESIGNED TO PREVENT UNLICENSED OR ILLEGAL USE
OF THE SOFTWARE. The license rights granted under this EULA
are limited to the first thirty (30) days after you first run
the SOFTWARE unless you supply information required to
activate your licensed copy in the manner described during the
setup sequence (unless Manufacturer has activated for you).
You can activate the SOFTWARE through the use of the Internet
or telephone; toll charges may apply. You may also need to
reactivate the SOFTWARE if you modify your HARDWARE or alter
the SOFTWARE. MS, Microsoft Corporation and its subsidiaries
will use those measures to confirm you have a legally licensed
copy of the SOFTWARE. If you are not using a licensed copy of
the SOFTWARE, you are not allowed to install the SOFTWARE or
future SOFTWARE updates. MS, Microsoft Corporation and its
subsidiaries will not collect any personally identifiable
information from your computer during this process.
* Digital Rights Management. Content providers are using the
digital rights management technology contained in this
Software ("DRM") to protect the integrity of their content (
"Secure Content") so that their intellectual property,
including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated.
Portions of this Software and third party applications such as
media players use DRM to play Secure Content ("DRM Software").
If the DRM Software's security has been compromised, owners of
Secure Content ("Secure Content Owners") may request that
Microsoft Licensing, Inc. ("MS"), Microsoft Corporation or
their subsidiaries revoke the DRM Software's right to copy,
display and/or play Secure Content. Revocation does not alter
the DRM Software's ability to play unprotected content. A
list of revoked DRM Software is sent to your computer whenever
you download a license for Secure Content from the Internet.
You therefore agree that MS, Microsoft Corporation or their
subsidiaries may, in conjunction with such license, also
download revocation lists onto your computer on behalf of
Secure Content Owners. MS, Microsoft Corporation or their
subsidiaries will not retrieve any personally identifiable
information, or any other information, from your computer by
downloading such revocation lists. Secure Content Owners may
also require you to upgrade some of the DRM components in this
Software ("DRM Upgrades") before accessing their content.
When you attempt to play such content, Microsoft DRM Software
will notify you that a DRM Upgrade is required and then ask
for your consent before the DRM Upgrade is downloaded. Third
party DRM Software may do the same. If you decline the
upgrade, you will not be able to access content that requires
the DRM Upgrade; however, you will still be able to access
unprotected content and Secure Content that does not require
the upgrade.
* Back-up Copy. YOU MAY MAKE A SINGLE BACK-UP
COPY OF THE SOFTWARE. YOU MAY USE ONE
(1) BACK-UP COPY SOLELY FOR YOUR ARCHIVAL
PURPOSES AND TO REINSTALL THE SOFTWARE ON THE
COMPUTER. EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED IN
THIS EULA OR BY LOCAL LAW, YOU MAY NOT
OTHERWISE MAKE COPIES OF THE SOFTWARE,
INCLUDING THE PRINTED MATERIALS ACCOMPANYING
THE SOFTWARE. YOU MAY NOT LOAN, RENT, LEASE,
LEND OR OTHERWISE TRANSFER THE CD OR BACK-UP
COPY TO ANOTHER USER.
* Use of Previous Version Of Software. If the COA which
accompanies the HARDWARE identifies the SOFTWARE as Microsoft
Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE, then in lieu of installing
and using Microsoft Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE, you may
install, use, access, display and run the same language
version of ONE (1) of the following versions:
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) 2000 Professional,
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) NT Workstation version 4.0 or
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) 98 (Second Edition)
("Downgrade Software") on the COMPUTER, provided (1)
you agree that Downgrade Software support will NOT be provided
hereunder by Manufacturer, MS or Microsoft Corporation, their
affiliates or subsidiaries: (2) you agree that neither
Manufacturer, MS nor Microsoft Corporation are obligated to
provide you with the Downgrade Software or media; (3) you may
not loan, rent, lease, lend or otherwise transfer the CD
or back-up copy of Microsoft Windows XP Professional to
another end user, except as otherwise provided in the transfer
provisions of this EULA; and (4) such Downgrade Software shall
be deemed "SOFTWARE" for the purposes of this EULA and use of
the Downgrade Software shall be in compliance with all the
terms of this EULA, except that, with respect to Microsoft
Windows 98 (Second Edition), your Connection Maximum shall be
limited to five (5) Devices. If you exercise the downgrade
rights granted herein, you may install, use, access, display
and run the Microsoft Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE,
provided (1) you remove the Downgrade Software from your hard
drive: (2) you do not loan, rent, lease, lend or otherwise
transfer the CD or back-up copy of Downgrade Software to
another end user, except as otherwise provided in the transfer
provisions of the EULA for the Downgrade Software; and (3)
such Microsoft Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE shall be
deemed "SOFTWARE" for the purposes of this EULA and use of the
Microsoft Windows XP Professional SOFTWARE shall be in
compliance with all of the terms of this EULA. If the COA
which accompanies the HARDWARE identifies the SOFTWARE as
either Windows XP Tablet PC Edition or Windows XP Media Center
Edition then no downgrade rights are granted herein.
* Reservation of Rights. Manufacturer, MS and
its suppliers (including Microsoft Corporation) reserve all
rights not expressly granted to you in this EULA.

2. DESCRIPTION OF OTHER RIGHTS AND
LIMITATIONS.
* NetMeeting/Remote Assistance/Remote Desktop Features. The
SOFTWARE contains Remote Desktop, Remote Assistance, and
NetMeeting technologies that enable the Product or
applications installed on the COMPUTER (sometimes referred to
as a host device) to be accessed remotely from other Devices.
You may use the SOFTWARE's Remote Desktop feature (or other
software which provides similar functionality for a similar
purpose) to permit any Device to use, access, display or run
the SOFTWARE without acquiring a license for the SOFTWARE on
that Device, provided only one user uses, accesses, displays,
or runs the SOFTWARE at any one time. When you are using
Remote Assistance or NetMeeting (or other software which
provides similar functionality for a similar purpose) you may
share your session with other users without any limit on the
number of Device connections and without acquiring additional
licenses for the SOFTWARE. For Microsoft and non-Microsoft
applications, you should consult the license agreement
accompanying the applicable product or contact the applicable
licensor to determine whether use of the product with Remote
Desktop, Remote Assistance, or NetMeeting is permitted without
an additional license. As used above, a session means the
experience delivered by the SOFTWARE similar to when a user is
using the input, output and display peripherals attached to
the COMPUTER.
* Consent to Use of Data. You agree that MS and Microsoft
Corporation and their affiliates may collect and use technical
information gathered in any manner as part of the product
support services provided to you, if any, related to the
SOFTWARE. MS, Microsoft Corporation and their affiliates may
use this information solely to improve their products or to
provide customized services or technologies to you. MS,
Microsoft Corporation and their affiliates may disclose this
information to others, but not in a form that personally
identifies you.
* Internet Gaming/Update Features. If you choose to utilize
the Internet gaming or update features within the SOFTWARE, it
is necessary to use certain COMPUTER system, hardware, and
software information to implement the features. By using
these features, you explicitly authorize MS, Microsoft
Corporation and/or their designated agent to use this
information solely to improve our products or to provide
customized services or technologies to you. MS or Microsoft
Corporation may disclose this information to others, but not
in a form that personally identifies you.
* Internet-Based Services Components. The SOFTWARE contains
components that enable and facilitate the use of
certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree
that MS, Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may
automatically check the version of the SOFTWARE and/or its
components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or
supplements to the SOFTWARE that may be automatically
downloaded to your COMPUTER.
* Language Version Selection. (i) Manufacturer may have
elected to provide you with a one-time selection of two or
more language versions of the SOFTWARE as part of the SOFTWARE
setup process. In such event, you are licensed to use only
one (1) of the language versions provided. Once you have used
a language version, you are not licensed to use any of the
other language versions that Manufacturer may have included
with the COMPUTER. (ii) Notwithstanding the preceding, if
Manufacturer has elected to provide you with a Multilingual
User Interface ("MUI") for certain language versions with
additional language version support of the SOFTWARE, the
preceding limitation to select and use only one language
version of the SOFTWARE shall not apply, so long as (A) you
acknowledge that the MUI, and the language support contained
therein, is a part of the SOFTWARE, (B) you only use the MUI
with the SOFTWARE, and (C) you comply with all of the other
terms and conditions of this EULA.
* Operating System Selection. Manufacturer may have elected
to provide you with a selection of Microsoft operating system
software for the COMPUTER. As part of the setup process for
the SOFTWARE you may be given a one-time option to select one
(1) Microsoft operating system. Upon selection, the one (1)
Microsoft operating system selected by you will be set up on
the COMPUTER, and the other Microsoft operating system (s) not
selected by you will be automatically and permanently deleted
from the hard disk of the COMPUTER and thereafter you are
licensed to use only the one (1) Microsoft operating system
selected. If the COMPUTER is accompanied by more than one (1)
COA for a Microsoft operating system, you are licensed to use
each Microsoft operating system(s) for which a COA is
provided.
* ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE/SERVICES. The terms of
this EULA apply to Microsoft updates, supplements, add-on
components, or Internet-based services components of the
SOFTWARE ("Supplemental Components") that Manufacturer, MS,
Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may provide to you
or make available to you after the date you obtain your
initial copy of the SOFTWARE, unless other terms are provided
along with such Supplemental Components. If other terms are
not provided along with such Supplemental Components and the
Supplemental Components are provided to you by MS, Microsoft
Corporation or their subsidiaries then you will be licensed by
such entity under the same terms and conditions of this EULA,
except that (i) MS, Microsoft Corporation or their
subsidiaries providing the Supplemental Components will be the
licensor with respect to such Supplemental Components in lieu
of the "Manufacturer" for the purposes of the EULA, and (ii)
TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE
LAW, THE SUPPLEMENTAL COMPONENTS AND ANY (IF
ANY) SUPPORT SERVICES RELATED TO THE
SUPPLEMENTAL COMPONENTS ARE PROVIDED AS IS
AND WITH ALL FAULTS. ALL OTHER DISCLAIMERS,
LIMITATION OF DAMAGES, AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
PROVIDED BELOW AND/OR OTHERWISE WITH THE
SOFTWARE SHALL APPLY TO SUCH
SUPPLEMENTAL COMPONENTS.
Manufacturer, MS, Microsoft Corporation and their
subsidiaries reserves the right to discontinue any
Microsoft Internet-based services provided to you or made
available to you through the use of the SOFTWARE.
This EULA does not grant you any rights to use the
Windows Media Format Software Development Kit ("WMFSDK")
components contained in the SOFTWARE to develop a software
application that uses Windows Media technology. If you wish
to use the WMFSDK to develop such an application, visit
[url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/imedia/windowsmedia[/url]
/sdk/wmsdk.asp, accept a separate license for the WMFSDK,
download the appropriate WMFSDK, and install it on your
system.
* Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation and
Disassembly. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or
disassemble the SOFTWARE, except and only to the extent that
such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law
notwithstanding this limitation.
* Separation of Components. The SOFTWARE is licensed as a
single product. Its component parts may not be separated for
use on more than one COMPUTER.
* Single EULA. The package for the SOFTWARE may contain
multiple versions of this EULA, such as multiple translations
and/or multiple media versions (e.g., in the user
documentation and in the software). In this case, you are
only licensed to use the SOFTWARE for which a COA is provided.
* Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights,
Manufacturer or MS may cancel this EULA if you do not abide by
the terms and conditions contained herein. In such event, you
must destroy all copies of the SOFTWARE and all of its
component parts.
* Trademarks. This EULA does not grant you any rights in
connection with any trademarks or service marks of
Manufacturer, MS or its suppliers (including Microsoft
Corporation).
* Speech/Handwriting Recognition. If the SOFTWARE includes
speech and/or handwriting recognition component(s), you should
understand that speech and handwriting recognition are
inherently statistical processes; that recognition errors are
inherent in the processes; that it is your responsibility to
provide for the handling of such errors and to monitor the
recognition processes and correct any errors. Neither
Manufacturer, MS, Microsoft Corporation, nor their suppliers
shall be liable for any damages arising out of errors in the
speech and handwriting recognition processes.
* Electronic Programming Guide. If the SOFTWARE includes
access to an electronic programming guide service that
displays customized television listings (the "EPG"), you agree
that the terms and conditions governing your use of the EPG
service are subject to a separate EPG terms of service
agreement ("EPG Terms of Service Agreement"). The EPG also
contains advertising content and other related EPG data, which
are received and stored as data files within the SOFTWARE.
If you do not agree to the EPG Terms of Service Agreement, you
may continue to use the SOFTWARE, but you will not have access
to the EPG. Please consult the SOFTWARE documentation for
instructions on accessing the EPG Terms of Service Agreement.

3. UPGRADES. If the SOFTWARE is labeled as an upgrade, you
must be properly licensed to use a product identified by
MS or Microsoft Corporation as being eligible for the
upgrade in order to use the SOFTWARE ("Eligible Product").
For the purpose of upgrade(s) only, "HARDWARE" shall mean
the computer system or computer system component with
which you received the Eligible Product. SOFTWARE labeled
as an upgrade replaces and/or supplements (and may
disable, if upgrading a Microsoft software product) the
Eligible Product which came with the HARDWARE. After
upgrading, you may no longer use the SOFTWARE that formed
the basis for your upgrade eligibility (unless otherwise
provided). You may use the resulting upgraded product
only in accordance with the terms of this EULA and only
with the HARDWARE. If the SOFTWARE is an upgrade of a
component of a package of software programs that you
licensed as a single product, the SOFTWARE may be used and
transferred only as part of that single product package
and may not be separated for use on more than one computer.

4. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. All title
and intellectual property rights in and to the SOFTWARE
(including but not limited to any images, photographs,
animations, video, audio, music, text and "applets,"
incorporated into the SOFTWARE), the accompanying printed
materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE, are owned by
MS or its suppliers (including Microsoft Corporation).
The SOFTWARE is licensed, not sold. All title and
intellectual property rights in and to the content that
is not contained in the SOFTWARE, but which may be
accessed through use of the SOFTWARE is the property of
the respective content owner and may be protected by
applicable copyright or other intellectual property laws
and treaties. Use of any on-line services which may be
accessed through the SOFTWARE may be governed by the
respective terms of use relating to such services. If
this SOFTWARE contains documentation that is provided
only in electronic form, you may print one copy of such
electronic documentation. You may not copy the printed
materials accompanying the SOFTWARE.

5. PRODUCT SUPPORT. SOFTWARE support for the
SOFTWARE is not provided by MS, Microsoft Corporation, or
their affiliates or subsidiaries. For product support,
please refer to Manufacturer's support number provided in
the documentation for the HARDWARE. Should you have any
questions concerning this EULA, or if you desire to
contact Manufacturer for any other reason, please refer to
the address provided in the documentation for the HARDWARE.

6. LINKS TO THIRD PARTY SITES. You may link
to third party sites through the use of the SOFTWARE.
The third party sites are not under the control of MS or
Microsoft Corporation, and MS or Microsoft Corporation
are not responsible for the contents of any third party
sites, any links contained in third party sites, or any
changes or updates to third party sites. MS or Microsoft
Corporation are not responsible for webcasting or any
other form of transmission received from any third party
sites. MS or Microsoft Corporation are providing these
links to third party sites to you only as a convenience,
and the inclusion of any link does not imply an
endorsement by MS or Microsoft Corporation of the third
party site.

7. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge that
the SOFTWARE is subject to U.S. export jurisdiction. You
agree to comply with all applicable international and
national laws that apply to the products, including the
U.S. Export Administration Regulations, as well as end
-user, end-use and destination restrictions issued by U
.S. and other governments. For additional information,
see [url]http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/[/url].

8. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All
SOFTWARE PRODUCT provided to the U.S.
Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after
December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial rights
and restrictions described elsewhere herein. All
SOFTWARE provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is
provided with RESTRICTED RIGHTS as provided for in FAR,
48 CFR 52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or FAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013
(OCT 1988), as applicable.

9. ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS. FOR THE LIMITED
WARRANTIES, LIMITATION OF LIABILITY, AND
OTHER SPECIAL PROVISIONS, PLEASE REFER TO
THE ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS PROVIDED BELOW
AND/OR OTHERWISE WITH THE SOFTWARE. SUCH
LIMITED WARRANTIES, LIMITATION OF
LIABILITY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS ARE AN
INTEGRAL PART OF THIS EULA.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND OR PAPUA NEW GUINEA

EXPRESS LIMITED WARRANTY

CONSUMER RIGHTS. Consumers may have the benefit of certain
rights or remedies pursuant to the Trade Practices Act and
similar state and territory laws in Australia or the Consumer
Guarantees Act in New Zealand, in respect of which certain
liability may not be excluded.

LIMITED EXPRESS WARRANTY. Manufacturer
warrants that: (a) the SOFTWARE will perform substantially in
accordance with the accompanying Product Manual(s) for a
period of 90 days from the date of receipt; and (b) any
Microsoft hardware accompanying SOFTWARE will be free from
defects in materials and workmanship under normal use and
service for a period of 1 year from the date of receipt.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. To the maximum extent permitted under
applicable law, Manufacturer's and its supplier's entire
liability and your exclusive remedy under the express warranty
is, at Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the
price paid; or (b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or
Microsoft hardware which does not meet the warranty and which
is returned to Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. The
warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or Microsoft
hardware has resulted from accident, abuse or misapplication.
Any replacement SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware will be
warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or
30 days, whichever is longer.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. To the maximum
extent permitted by applicable law, any conditions or
warranties imposed or implied by law are hereby excluded.
Consumers may nevertheless have the benefit of certain rights
or remedies pursuant to the Trade Practices Act and similar
state and territory laws in Australia or the Consumer
Guarantees Act in New Zealand, in respect of which liability
may not be excluded. Insofar as such liability may not be
excluded, then to the maximum extent permitted by law, such
liability is limited, at the exclusive option of
Manufacturer, to either (a) replacement of the SOFTWARE (and
any accompanying hardware supplied); or (b) correction of
defects in the SOFTWARE; or (c) payment of the cost of having
defects in the SOFTWARE (and any accompanying hardware
supplied).

EXCLUSION OF LIABILITY/DAMAGES. The
following is without prejudice to any rights you may have at
law which cannot legally be excluded or restricted. You
acknowledge that no promise, representation, warranty or
undertaking has been made or given by Manufacturer and/or
Microsoft Corporation (or related company of either) to any
person or company on its behalf in relation to the
profitability of or any other consequences or benefits to be
obtained from the delivery or use of the SOFTWARE and any
accompanying Microsoft hardware, software, manuals or written
materials. You have relied upon your own skill and judgement
in deciding to acquire the SOFTWARE and any accompanying
hardware, manuals and written materials for use by you.
Except as and to the extent provided in this agreement,
neither Manufacturer and/or Microsoft Corporation (or related
company of either) will in any circumstances be liable for any
other damages whatsoever (including, without limitation,
damages for loss of business, business interruption, loss of
business information or other indirect or consequential loss)
arising out of the use or inability to use or supply or non
-supply of the SOFTWARE and any accompanying hardware and
written materials. Manufacturer's and/or Microsoft
Corporation (or related company of either) total liability
under any provision of this agreement is in any case limited
to the amount actually paid by you for the SOFTWARE and/or
Microsoft hardware.

This agreement is governed by the laws of New South Wales,
Australia or, where supplies are made in New Zealand, by the
laws of New Zealand.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES AND IRELAND

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance with the
accompanying written materials for a period of ninety (90)
days from the date of receipt, and (b) any Microsoft hardware
accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of one (1) year from the date of receipt. Any implied
warranties on the SOFTWARE and Microsoft hardware are limited
to ninety (90) days and one (1) year, respectively.
Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on duration
of an implied warranty, so the above limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at
Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or
(b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and which is returned to
Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. This Limited
Warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or hardware has
resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days,
whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all
other representations, warranties, conditions or other terms,
either express or implied, including, but not limited to
implied warranties amd/or conditions of merchantability and
fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE,
the accompanying written materials, and any accompanying
hardware. This limited warranty gives you specific legal
rights. You may have others which vary from state
/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event
shall Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, direct or indirect
damages for personal injury, loss of business profits,
business interruption, loss of business information, or any
other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability
to use this product, even if Manufacturer has been advised of
the possibility of such damages. In any case, Manufacturer's
and its suppliers' entire liability under any provision of
this agreement shall be limited to the amount actually paid by
you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware. Because some
states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation
of liability for consequential or incidental damages, the
above limitation may not apply to you.

SPECIAL PROVISIONS

Reverse Engineering: If you acquired the SOFTWARE in the
European Community, you may not reverse engineer, decompile,
or dissassemble the SOFTWARE except to the extent and for the
express purposes authorized by applicable law.

This Software License Agreement is governed by the laws
of England.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
CANADA

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance with the
accompanying written materials for a period of ninety (90)
days from the date of receipt, and (b) any Microsoft hardware
accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of one (1) year from the date of receipt. Any implied
warranties or conditions on the SOFTWARE and Microsoft
hardware are limited to ninety (90) days and one (1) year,
respectively. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow
limitations on duration of an implied warranty, so the above
limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at
Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or
(b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and which is returned to
Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. This Limited
Warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or hardware has
resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days,
whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all
other warranties, either express or implied, including, but
not limited to implied warranties of merchantability and
fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE,
the accompanying written materials, and any accompanying
hardware. This limited warranty gives you specific legal
rights. You may have others which vary from state
/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event
shall Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, direct or indirect
damages for personal injury, loss of business profits,
business interruption, loss of business information, or any
other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability
to use this product, even if Manufacturer has been advised of
the possibility of such damages. In any case, Manufacturer's
and its suppliers' entire liability under any provision of
this agreement shall be limited to the amount actually paid by
you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware. Because some
states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation
of liability for consequential or incidental damages, the
above limitation may not apply to you.

This Software License Agreement is governed by the laws of the
Province of Ontario, Canada. Each of the parties hereto
irrevocably attorns to the jurisdiction of the courts of the
Province of Ontario and further agrees to commence any
litigation which may arise hereunder in the courts located in
the Judicial District of York, Province of Ontario.

ANNEXE

GARANTIE ET DISPOSITIONS PARTICULIÈRES
POUR LE CANADA

GARANTIE LIMITÉE

Si vous vous êtes procuré ce produit Microsoft(r) ou ce
matériel Microsoft(r) au CANADA, la garantie suivante
s'adresse à vous.

GARANTIE LIMITÉE. Le Fabricant garantit que (a) la
performance du LOGICIEL sera substantiellement en conformité
avec les documents écrits qui l'accompagnent pour une période
de quatre-vingt-dix (90) jours à compter de la date de
réception, et que (b) tout matériel de Microsoft fourni avec
le LOGICIEL sera exempt de défaut de matière première ou de
vice de fabrication dans des conditions normales d'utilisation
et d'entretien pour une période d'un (1) an à compter de la
date de réception. Toutes garanties ou conditions implicites
concernant le LOGICIEL et le matériel Microsoft sont limitées
à quatre-vingt-dix (90) jours et un (1) an, respectivement.

RECOURS DU CLIENT. La seule obligation du Fabricant et de
ses fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, au choix du
Fabricant, soit (a) le remboursement du prix payé ou (b) la
réparation ou le remplacement du LOGICIEL ou du matériel qui
n'est pas conforme à la Garantie limitée et qui est retourné
au Fabricant avec une copie de votre reçu. Cette Garantie
limitée est nulle si la défectuosité du LOGICIEL ou du
matériel est causée par un accident, un traitement abusif ou
une mauvaise application. Tout LOGICIEL ou matériel de
remplacement sera garanti pour le reste de la période de
garantie initiale ou pour trente (30) jours, selon laquelle de
ces deux périodes est la plus longue.

EXCLUSION DE TOUTE AUTRE GARANTIE. Selon la
portée maximale autorisée par la loi applicable, le Fabricant
et ses fournisseurs renoncent à toutes autres garanties ou
conditions, expresses ou implicites, y compris mais ne se
limitant pas aux garanties implicites de la qualité marchande
ou un usage particulier en ce qui concerne le LOGICIEL, la
documentation écrite et tout matériel qui l'accompagnent.
Cette garantie limitée vous accorde des droits spécifiques
reconnus par la loi.

ABSENCE DE RESPONSABILITÉ POUR LES DOMMAGES
INDIRECTS. Selon la portée maximale autorisée par la loi
applicable, le Fabricant ou ses fournisseurs ne pourront être
tenus responsables en aucune circonstance de tous dommages
quels qu'ils soient (y compris mais non de façon limitative
les dommages directs ou indirects causés par des lésions
corporelles, la perte de bénéfices commerciaux, l'interruption
des affaires, la perte d'information commerciale ou toute
autre perte pécuniaire) découlant de l'utilisation ou de
l'impossibilité d'utilisation de ce produit, et ce même si le
Fabricant a été avisé de l'éventualité de tels dommages. En
tout état de cause, la seule responsabilité du Fabricant et de
ses fournisseurs en vertu de toute disposition de cette
Convention se limitera au montant que vous aurez effectivement
payé pour l'achat du LOGICIEL et/ou du matériel Microsoft.

La présente Convention de droits d'utilisation de logiciel est
régie par les lois de la province d'Ontario, Canada. Chacune
des parties aux présentes reconnaît irrévocablement la
compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent à
instituer tout litige qui pourrait découler des présentes
auprès des tribunaux situés dans le district judiciaire de
York, province d'Ontario.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
AND ANY OTHER COUNTRY

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance with the
accompanying written materials for a period of ninety (90)
days from the date of receipt, and (b) any Microsoft hardware
accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of one (1) year from the date of receipt. Any implied
warranties on the SOFTWARE and Microsoft hardware are limited
to ninety (90) days and one (1) year, respectively.
Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on duration
of an implied warranty, so the above limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at
Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or
(b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and which is returned to
Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. This Limited
Warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or hardware has
resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days,
whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all
other warranties, either express or implied, including, but
not limited to implied warranties of merchantability and
fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE,
the accompanying written materials, and any accompanying
hardware. This limited warranty gives you specific legal
rights. You may have others which vary from state
/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event
shall Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, special, incidental,
consequential, or indirect damages for personal injury, loss
of business profits, business interruption, loss of business
information, or any other pecuniary loss) arising out of the
use of or inability to use this product, even if Manufacturer
has been advised of the possibility of such damages. In any
case, Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire liability under
any provision of this agreement shall be limited to the amount
actually paid by you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft
hardware. Because some states/jurisdictions do not allow the
exclusion or limitation of liability for consequential or
incidental damages, the above limitation may not apply to you.

SPECIAL PROVISIONS

U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All SOFTWARE
provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations
issued on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the
commercial license rights and restrictions described in this
EULA. All SOFTWARE provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided
with "Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52
..227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988),
as applicable. Manufacturer is responsible for ensuring the
SOFTWARE is marked with the "Restricted Rights Notice" or
"Restricted Rights Legend," as required. All rights not
expressly granted are reserved.

If you acquired the SOFTWARE in the United States of America,
this Software License Agreement and Warranty are governed by
the laws of the State of Washington, U.S.A. If you acquired
the SOFTWARE outside the United States of America, local law
may apply.

EULAID:XPSP1_RM.1_PRO_OEM_EN

*************************************************************

Steve

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Leythos wrote:

> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>
>>It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
>>users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
>>are pertaining to OEM copies.
>
>
> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.

Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've used this
irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions that it's
beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT talking about OEM
Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM EULA. You DO know what EULA
stands for don't you? No End User agrees to the OEM Builders agreement,
they agree to the EULA. Period.

Steve

>
> One note, the licensing agreement states that a Motherboard many be
> replaced with identical or a newer motherboard with the older board is
> defective - this means that if your Old P3 motherboard dies you can
> change it out for a P20000000 motherboard and still activate and be
> properly licensed. If you just wanted a faster computer and replaced a
> non-defective motherboard, that would violate the systems builders OEM
> agreement.
>

Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
In article <azJhe.900$X92.646@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
me@here.now says...
> Leythos wrote:
>
> > In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > mytribe@home.invalid says...
> >
> >>It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
> >>users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
> >>are pertaining to OEM copies.
> >
> >
> > It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
> > builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>
> Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've used this
> irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions that it's
> beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT talking about OEM
> Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM EULA. You DO know what EULA
> stands for don't you? No End User agrees to the OEM Builders agreement,
> they agree to the EULA. Period.

I don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I understand
it completely and don't see any problems with it.

--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message > > >> pertaining to OEM > > I
don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I understand
> it completely and don't see any problems with it.
>
You probably wrote it then...ha ha ha

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in:
>
>> I never guessed my question/remarks would make such a longish
>> thread :-) I think I aptly named the subject. I am now as
>> confused as ever. When I got the generic win xp home oem cd I was
>> not informed of the limitations. It never saved me much money, so
>> I guess everyone except me gained something. And even though I
>> have previous win 95/98 cd's, I now think, in hind sight should
>> have got the retail upgrade of win xp home. Is oem a bum deal?
>
> No, it's not a bum deal if you saved some money. As for your original
> question, read Jupiter Jones' comments and ignore the rest.

Ignore you, Norton! Or to the sewers with you!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Leythos wrote:

> In article <azJhe.900$X92.646@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> me@here.now says...
>
>>Leythos wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP that
>>>>users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what the rules
>>>>are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>>
>>>
>>>It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
>>>builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>>
>>Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've used this
>>irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions that it's
>>beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT talking about OEM
>>Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM EULA. You DO know what EULA
>>stands for don't you? No End User agrees to the OEM Builders agreement,
>>they agree to the EULA. Period.
>
>
> I don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I understand
> it completely and don't see any problems with it.
>

What you obviously DON'T understand is that it has no relevance to this
discussion.

Steve

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Steve N. wrote:
> Leythos wrote:
>
>> In article <azJhe.900$X92.646@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> me@here.now says...
>>
>>> Leythos wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
>>>>> that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what
>>>>> the rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
>>>> builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>>>
>>> Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've used
>>> this irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions that
>>> it's beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT talking
>>> about OEM Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM EULA. You DO
>>> know what EULA stands for don't you? No End User agrees to the OEM
>>> Builders agreement, they agree to the EULA. Period.
>>
>>
>> I don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I
>> understand it completely and don't see any problems with it.
>>
>
> What you obviously DON'T understand is that it has no relevance to
> this discussion.
>
> Steve

No, he understands that too. He is deliberately being misleading.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
In hindsight, you should have gotten the Retail upgrade version, because it
has fewer limitations, a similar price, and can perform an Upgrade
installation. However, you are not in a bad position. Ignore all the
superstitious EULA-as-vengeful-god naysayers, and enjoy your OEM copy, as I
do mine.

David Sewell wrote:
> I never guessed my question/remarks would make such a longish thread
> :-) I think I aptly named the subject. I am now as confused as
> ever. When I got the generic win xp home oem cd I was not informed
> of the limitations. It never saved me much money, so I guess
> everyone except me gained something. And even though I have previous
> win 95/98 cd's, I now think, in hind sight should have got the retail
> upgrade of win xp home. Is oem a bum deal?
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> David
>
> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d65upe$5pl$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> I purchased a win xp home oem disk, at only just pennies short of
>> retail edition price, from the supplier that supplied me with items
>> I used to build my own system. I already have win 95 and win 98
>> upgrade purchases from now dead previous pc's. So, if my
>> motherboard fails, am I right in assuming I am supposed to buy a new
>> motherboard and another copy of win xp, thereby keeping up Bill
>> (love him to bits) Gates to the life style he has become accustomed,
>> just so that I can carry on using a single system that ain't moved
>> anywhere and is only used by the single self same person, whose
>> fault cannot be blamed if the motherboard decides it wants to go to
>> motherboard heaven?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David

T. Waters
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Alias wrote:
> "Gene K" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:eduWhFPWFHA.3488@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Company legal contracts [EULA] are written by teams of lawyers. If
>> you ever find one written in plain easily understood English
>> [Italian, Polish, etc] either on this or any other side of the
>> Atlantic, I will never believe that it is real. I plainly understand
>> that an OEM Windows license is limited to the first computer upon
>> which it is installed. If the Microsoft EULA displayed is correct,
>> you can upgrade about any part of it [except the Motherboard] at
>> your will. If the motherboard is upgraded, OEM license is revoked
>> UNLESS the original board burned out and you replace it with one
>> Microsoft will approve in extending the OEM License. In other words,
>> call them before you buy and install the motherboard since there are
>> going to be limitations imposed. The only reason to buy an OEM
>> license is to save some money but then
>> you have to accept the ensuing limitations. Gene K
>
> My EULAs, both in Spanish and English do not mention a motherboard and
> that's what I am going to go by. I plan to upgrade a perfectly good
> motherboard and I don't plan to buy another XP because I ALREADY HAVE
> ONE that works perfectly. I also plan to upgrade the CPU, RAM and
> video card. If I have to make a call to activate, the only
> information I will give is, "a bubble popped up saying I have to
> activate and my number is xxxxxxxxxxxxx ..." because that's all
> that's required for me to divulge about my computer. I will also get
> the name of the person who answers the phone in case he decided to
> get uppity and hang up on me for refusing to give any more
> information.
>
> Proof that I only have to give this information:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>
> What you posted is unadulterated FUD and, well, a lie.
>
> Activation was created to stop piracy (although it failed), not to
> prevent someone from upgrading their computer.
>
> Alias


Still, I am fairly certain that you will have to go to H-E-double toothpick
if you do this.






>>
>> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:d6619h$fg5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>> I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation
>>> hits me clear as mud!"
>>>
>>> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there
>>> should (if
>>> it does not already exist) be an American version....
>>> Sorry guys........

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
kurttrail wrote:
> Steve N. wrote:
>
>>Leythos wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <azJhe.900$X92.646@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>>>me@here.now says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Leythos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM XP
>>>>>>that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just what
>>>>>>the rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the OEM
>>>>>builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>>>>
>>>>Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've used
>>>>this irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions that
>>>>it's beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT talking
>>>>about OEM Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM EULA. You DO
>>>>know what EULA stands for don't you? No End User agrees to the OEM
>>>>Builders agreement, they agree to the EULA. Period.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I
>>>understand it completely and don't see any problems with it.
>>>
>>
>>What you obviously DON'T understand is that it has no relevance to
>>this discussion.
>>
>>Steve
>
>
> No, he understands that too.

I doubt it. He keeps confusing the OEM Builders Agreement (or whatever
the hell it's called that nobody discussing EULAs gives a rip about
anyway because NONE of us plain folk have seen it, nor have we agreed to
it, nor can we even view the actual source of it because we AREN'T OEM
Builders!) with the EULA = End User License Agreement!

> He is deliberately being misleading.

To what end? Why would any of the regulars here deliberately intend to
mislead anyone else here? This accusation makes no sense to me at all.

I think it's mis-firing braincells in his head, I swear. He just can't
get it through his thick numbskull that an END frikkin USER is not the
same as an OEM frikkin BUILDER! It doesn't matter that we may build our
own systems, lots of END frikkin USERS do that and always have, we are
NOT OEM frikkin BUILDERS! We don't have an agreement with MS to be so
and we've never agreed to ANYTHING but the gol-dern EULA! And NO frikkin
WHERE in an OEM EULA is the COMPUTER defined as the MOTHERBOARD!
NOWHERE! The EULA is what we've agreed to, nothing more and nothing
less. Something about his brain just hiccups on this crap and he can't
seem to comprehend the distinction.

Steve

Alias
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
"T. Waters" <@$%$%#^@jdjgkl.com> wrote in message
news:OAMKNJXWFHA.132@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Alias wrote:
>> "Gene K" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>> news:eduWhFPWFHA.3488@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Company legal contracts [EULA] are written by teams of lawyers. If
>>> you ever find one written in plain easily understood English
>>> [Italian, Polish, etc] either on this or any other side of the
>>> Atlantic, I will never believe that it is real. I plainly understand
>>> that an OEM Windows license is limited to the first computer upon
>>> which it is installed. If the Microsoft EULA displayed is correct,
>>> you can upgrade about any part of it [except the Motherboard] at
>>> your will. If the motherboard is upgraded, OEM license is revoked
>>> UNLESS the original board burned out and you replace it with one
>>> Microsoft will approve in extending the OEM License. In other words,
>>> call them before you buy and install the motherboard since there are
>>> going to be limitations imposed. The only reason to buy an OEM
>>> license is to save some money but then
>>> you have to accept the ensuing limitations. Gene K
>>
>> My EULAs, both in Spanish and English do not mention a motherboard and
>> that's what I am going to go by. I plan to upgrade a perfectly good
>> motherboard and I don't plan to buy another XP because I ALREADY HAVE
>> ONE that works perfectly. I also plan to upgrade the CPU, RAM and
>> video card. If I have to make a call to activate, the only
>> information I will give is, "a bubble popped up saying I have to
>> activate and my number is xxxxxxxxxxxxx ..." because that's all
>> that's required for me to divulge about my computer. I will also get
>> the name of the person who answers the phone in case he decided to
>> get uppity and hang up on me for refusing to give any more
>> information.
>>
>> Proof that I only have to give this information:
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>>
>> What you posted is unadulterated FUD and, well, a lie.
>>
>> Activation was created to stop piracy (although it failed), not to
>> prevent someone from upgrading their computer.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> Still, I am fairly certain that you will have to go to H-E-double
> toothpick
> if you do this.

Heh.

Alias
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:d6619h$fg5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>>> I read it all. Hence my subject heading "Win xp oem activation
>>>> hits me clear as mud!"
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, have you heard of the plain english society? Maybe there
>>>> should (if
>>>> it does not already exist) be an American version....
>>>> Sorry guys........
>
>
>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Steve N. wrote:
> kurttrail wrote:
>> Steve N. wrote:
>>
>>> Leythos wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In article <azJhe.900$X92.646@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>>>> me@here.now says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Leythos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>> mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM
>>>>>>> XP that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just
>>>>>>> what the rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the
>>>>>> OEM builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've
>>>>> used this irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions
>>>>> that it's beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT
>>>>> talking about OEM Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM
>>>>> EULA. You DO know what EULA stands for don't you? No End User
>>>>> agrees to the OEM Builders agreement, they agree to the EULA.
>>>>> Period.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I
>>>> understand it completely and don't see any problems with it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What you obviously DON'T understand is that it has no relevance to
>>> this discussion.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> No, he understands that too.
>
> I doubt it. He keeps confusing the OEM Builders Agreement (or whatever
> the hell it's called that nobody discussing EULAs gives a rip about
> anyway because NONE of us plain folk have seen it, nor have we agreed
> to it, nor can we even view the actual source of it because we AREN'T
> OEM Builders!) with the EULA = End User License Agreement!
>
>> He is deliberately being misleading.
>
> To what end? Why would any of the regulars here deliberately intend to
> mislead anyone else here? This accusation makes no sense to me at all.

I think you are being naive. There are some regulars that try to suck
up to MS by giving misleading answers all the time.

>
> I think it's mis-firing braincells in his head, I swear. He just can't
> get it through his thick numbskull that an END frikkin USER is not the
> same as an OEM frikkin BUILDER! It doesn't matter that we may build
> our own systems, lots of END frikkin USERS do that and always have,
> we are NOT OEM frikkin BUILDERS! We don't have an agreement with MS
> to be so and we've never agreed to ANYTHING but the gol-dern EULA!
> And NO frikkin WHERE in an OEM EULA is the COMPUTER defined as the
> MOTHERBOARD! NOWHERE! The EULA is what we've agreed to, nothing more
> and nothing less. Something about his brain just hiccups on this crap
> and he can't seem to comprehend the distinction.


He owns a business that is a MS patner, and by muddying the waters he is
trying to get people to buy more copies of software than they need.

I believe he thinks he is helping MS. He has been told over and over
again, many dozens of times or more, that the SBL is in no way
applicable to end users. At this point, he is either the densest person
on the planet, or he is deliberately trying to confuse the issue.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

David R. Norton MVP
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> Ignore you, Norton! Or to the sewers with you!

Thank you for an intelligent, helpful reply.


--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>
>> Ignore you, Norton! Or to the sewers with you!
>
> Thank you for an intelligent, helpful reply.

LOL! Just be sure not to forget it!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

DevilsPGD
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
In message <e58tzjTWFHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> "Alias"
<aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:

>
>"DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
>news:67pd8193t121bid9co2gvjdqai7rstv43l@news.readfreenews.net...
>> In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
>> <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>>
>>>> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
>>>> give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
>>>> fail?
>>>> We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as
>>>> I
>>>> see it.
>>>
>>>Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been more
>>>than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read this
>>>first:
>>>
>>>http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/
>>
>> Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed on the
>> OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.
>
>Sure it does. You might want to read this too:
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>>
>> Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the moment
>> your payment is accepted.
>
>I agree but my link had no additional terms.

Sure it did -- I have an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro preinstalled on my
laptop, and the details on that link were not presented to me before I
purchased the product, or in the printed material which accompanied the
product, or even in the EULA.

The above three (pre-sales, accompanying material, EULA) are the *only*
three things I am legally bound to (and perhaps not even those three,
should Microsoft ever take a shrinkwrap agreement and/or an EULA to
court and risk the judge kicking part or all of the EULA)

Microsoft can write up whatever they want anywhere they want, but unless
it's written and presented to me before I agree to the terms and make
the purchase, it doesn't apply.


--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
DevilsPGD wrote:

> In message <e58tzjTWFHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> "Alias"
> <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>
>
>>"DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
>>news:67pd8193t121bid9co2gvjdqai7rstv43l@news.readfreenews.net...
>>
>>>In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
>>><aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp should
>>>>>give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
>>>>>fail?
>>>>>We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies as
>>>>>I
>>>>>see it.
>>>>
>>>>Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been more
>>>>than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read this
>>>>first:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/
>>>
>>>Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed on the
>>>OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.
>>
>>Sure it does. You might want to read this too:
>>
>>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>>
>>>Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the moment
>>>your payment is accepted.
>>
>>I agree but my link had no additional terms.
>
>
> Sure it did -- I have an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro preinstalled on my
> laptop, and the details on that link were not presented to me before I
> purchased the product, or in the printed material which accompanied the
> product, or even in the EULA.
>
> The above three (pre-sales, accompanying material, EULA) are the *only*
> three things I am legally bound to (and perhaps not even those three,
> should Microsoft ever take a shrinkwrap agreement and/or an EULA to
> court and risk the judge kicking part or all of the EULA)
>
> Microsoft can write up whatever they want anywhere they want, but unless
> it's written and presented to me before I agree to the terms and make
> the purchase, it doesn't apply.
>
>

Yeah. By the same token maybe I can legally bind you to an agreement
such as follows:


"By reading and not repsonding with an "opt-out" reply message to this
thread in this newsgroup within 24 hours you are accepting this Lawn
Mowing Agreement. You shall mow my lawn every Saturday, regarless of
weather conditions, and you must supply your own lawnmower and fuel. In
addition, you must supply me with a case of beer for me to drink at my
discretion while I watch you mow my lawn and gloat. Further, you agree
that any and evey statement made by me pointing out your obvious
stupidity, regardelss of profanity used in doing so, and regardless of
my level of sobriety, shall be tatooed on your forehead."

Steve

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
"Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
news:e5Phe.1093$Lc1.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> DevilsPGD wrote:
>
> > In message <e58tzjTWFHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> "Alias"
> > <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
> >>news:67pd8193t121bid9co2gvjdqai7rstv43l@news.readfreenews.net...
> >>
> >>>In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
> >>><aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp
should
> >>>>>give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
> >>>>>fail?
> >>>>>We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies
as
> >>>>>I
> >>>>>see it.
> >>>>
> >>>>Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been
more
> >>>>than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read
this
> >>>>first:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/
> >>>
> >>>Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed on
the
> >>>OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.
> >>
> >>Sure it does. You might want to read this too:
> >>
> >>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
> >>
> >>>Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the
moment
> >>>your payment is accepted.
> >>
> >>I agree but my link had no additional terms.
> >
> >
> > Sure it did -- I have an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro preinstalled on my
> > laptop, and the details on that link were not presented to me before I
> > purchased the product, or in the printed material which accompanied the
> > product, or even in the EULA.
> >
> > The above three (pre-sales, accompanying material, EULA) are the *only*
> > three things I am legally bound to (and perhaps not even those three,
> > should Microsoft ever take a shrinkwrap agreement and/or an EULA to
> > court and risk the judge kicking part or all of the EULA)
> >
> > Microsoft can write up whatever they want anywhere they want, but unless
> > it's written and presented to me before I agree to the terms and make
> > the purchase, it doesn't apply.
> >
> >
>
> Yeah. By the same token maybe I can legally bind you to an agreement
> such as follows:
>
>
> "By reading and not repsonding with an "opt-out" reply message to this
> thread in this newsgroup within 24 hours you are accepting this Lawn
> Mowing Agreement. You shall mow my lawn every Saturday, regarless of
> weather conditions, and you must supply your own lawnmower and fuel. In
> addition, you must supply me with a case of beer for me to drink at my
> discretion while I watch you mow my lawn and gloat. Further, you agree
> that any and evey statement made by me pointing out your obvious
> stupidity, regardelss of profanity used in doing so, and regardless of
> my level of sobriety, shall be tatooed on your forehead."
>
> Steve
>
Yeah, but Steve, can you guarantee to make it stand up in court!!

David Sewell
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Second /(third) thoughts... sorry... kissy kissy.. there, I'm sure we all
feel better for that?!

David...

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
David Sewell wrote:
> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
> news:e5Phe.1093$Lc1.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> DevilsPGD wrote:
>>
>>> In message <e58tzjTWFHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> "Alias"
>>> <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:67pd8193t121bid9co2gvjdqai7rstv43l@news.readfreenews.net...
>>>>
>>>>> In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
>>>>> <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win
>>>>>>> xp should give me another copy of win xp if there supplied
>>>>>>> motherboard should fail?
>>>>>>> We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem
>>>>>>> lies as I
>>>>>>> see it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's
>>>>>> been more than 120 days since the last activation. If you have
>>>>>> to call, read this first:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed
>>>>> on the OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.
>>>>
>>>> Sure it does. You might want to read this too:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>>>>
>>>>> Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the
>>>>> moment your payment is accepted.
>>>>
>>>> I agree but my link had no additional terms.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure it did -- I have an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro preinstalled on
>>> my laptop, and the details on that link were not presented to me
>>> before I purchased the product, or in the printed material which
>>> accompanied the product, or even in the EULA.
>>>
>>> The above three (pre-sales, accompanying material, EULA) are the
>>> *only* three things I am legally bound to (and perhaps not even
>>> those three, should Microsoft ever take a shrinkwrap agreement
>>> and/or an EULA to court and risk the judge kicking part or all of
>>> the EULA)
>>>
>>> Microsoft can write up whatever they want anywhere they want, but
>>> unless it's written and presented to me before I agree to the terms
>>> and make the purchase, it doesn't apply.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yeah. By the same token maybe I can legally bind you to an agreement
>> such as follows:
>>
>>
>> "By reading and not repsonding with an "opt-out" reply message to
>> this thread in this newsgroup within 24 hours you are accepting this
>> Lawn Mowing Agreement. You shall mow my lawn every Saturday,
>> regarless of weather conditions, and you must supply your own
>> lawnmower and fuel. In addition, you must supply me with a case of
>> beer for me to drink at my discretion while I watch you mow my lawn
>> and gloat. Further, you agree that any and evey statement made by me
>> pointing out your obvious stupidity, regardelss of profanity used in
>> doing so, and regardless of my level of sobriety, shall be tatooed
>> on your forehead."
>>
>> Steve
>>
> Yeah, but Steve, can you guarantee to make it stand up in court!!

Can MS?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Woody
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
<Yeah, but Steve, can you guarantee to make it stand up in court!!>

you could be arrested if it stands up in court ;-P

Woody
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
too young to know who jackie gleason is ?

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
David Sewell wrote:

> Second /(third) thoughts... sorry... kissy kissy.. there, I'm sure we all
> feel better for that?!
>
> David...
>
>

In case you didn't figure it out the 1st time, PUAR = P!ss Up A Rope.

Steve

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Woody wrote:

> <Yeah, but Steve, can you guarantee to make it stand up in court!!>
>
> you could be arrested if it stands up in court ;-P
>
>
>

LOL!

Steve

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
David Sewell wrote:

> "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote in message
> news:e5Phe.1093$Lc1.732@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>DevilsPGD wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In message <e58tzjTWFHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> "Alias"
>>><aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:67pd8193t121bid9co2gvjdqai7rstv43l@news.readfreenews.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In message <OdsMBJOWFHA.1508@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> "Alias"
>>>>><aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"David Sewell" <david@hereat.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does this mean that the person that sold me a copy of oem win xp
>
> should
>
>>>>>>>give me another copy of win xp if there supplied motherboard should
>>>>>>>fail?
>>>>>>>We could go on like this forever, and this is where the problem lies
>
> as
>
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>see it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Replace your motherboard. Install XP. Activate it online if it's been
>
> more
>
>>>>>>than 120 days since the last activation. If you have to call, read
>
> this
>
>>>>>>first:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/
>>>>>
>>>>>Since the information on that page wasn't on the EULA nor printed on
>
> the
>
>>>>>OEM packaging, it doesn't apply.
>>>>
>>>>Sure it does. You might want to read this too:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx#details
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Nobody, Microsoft included, can add terms to a contract after the
>
> moment
>
>>>>>your payment is accepted.
>>>>
>>>>I agree but my link had no additional terms.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sure it did -- I have an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro preinstalled on my
>>>laptop, and the details on that link were not presented to me before I
>>>purchased the product, or in the printed material which accompanied the
>>>product, or even in the EULA.
>>>
>>>The above three (pre-sales, accompanying material, EULA) are the *only*
>>>three things I am legally bound to (and perhaps not even those three,
>>>should Microsoft ever take a shrinkwrap agreement and/or an EULA to
>>>court and risk the judge kicking part or all of the EULA)
>>>
>>>Microsoft can write up whatever they want anywhere they want, but unless
>>>it's written and presented to me before I agree to the terms and make
>>>the purchase, it doesn't apply.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yeah. By the same token maybe I can legally bind you to an agreement
>>such as follows:
>>
>>
>>"By reading and not repsonding with an "opt-out" reply message to this
>>thread in this newsgroup within 24 hours you are accepting this Lawn
>>Mowing Agreement. You shall mow my lawn every Saturday, regarless of
>>weather conditions, and you must supply your own lawnmower and fuel. In
>>addition, you must supply me with a case of beer for me to drink at my
>>discretion while I watch you mow my lawn and gloat. Further, you agree
>>that any and evey statement made by me pointing out your obvious
>>stupidity, regardelss of profanity used in doing so, and regardless of
>>my level of sobriety, shall be tatooed on your forehead."
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
> Yeah, but Steve, can you guarantee to make it stand up in court!!
>
>

Can Microsoft make their's stand up in court? Last I saw they copped out
of a suit against some college student bozo trying sell an OEM software
of theirs on e-bay, not to mention they have been convicted of being
monopoly in US courts.

So yeah, maybe I can.

I can read and understand an EULA. Too bad nobody else here seems to be
able to.

So, are ya gonna mow my lawn, or what? And don't you dare forget about
the beer, dammit. I already got a tatoo artist lined up. I figure you
got less than 22 hours left to decide...

If not...
.... see you Saturday. :)

Steve

David R. Norton MVP
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
"Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:

> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?

Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.



--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
kurttrail wrote:

> Steve N. wrote:
>
>>kurttrail wrote:
>>
>>>Steve N. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Leythos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <azJhe.900$X92.646@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>>>>>me@here.now says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Leythos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <mu9286q87fab.siyax7y5ovpk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>>>mytribe@home.invalid says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's clear from the many postings to this group in regards OEM
>>>>>>>>XP that users are unclear ( and that includes the MVP's )just
>>>>>>>>what the rules are pertaining to OEM copies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's only unclear for those that want to remain ignorant - the
>>>>>>>OEM builders site is very clear about the OEM rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Good God Leythos, would you get a frikkin clue already? You've
>>>>>>used this irrelevant argument so many times in these discussions
>>>>>>that it's beginning to get nauseating. HEADS UP! We are NOT
>>>>>>talking about OEM Builders rules, we're talking about the OEM
>>>>>>EULA. You DO know what EULA stands for don't you? No End User
>>>>>>agrees to the OEM Builders agreement, they agree to the EULA.
>>>>>>Period.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't need another clue, I didn't miss anything about it. I
>>>>>understand it completely and don't see any problems with it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What you obviously DON'T understand is that it has no relevance to
>>>>this discussion.
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>No, he understands that too.
>>
>>I doubt it. He keeps confusing the OEM Builders Agreement (or whatever
>>the hell it's called that nobody discussing EULAs gives a rip about
>>anyway because NONE of us plain folk have seen it, nor have we agreed
>>to it, nor can we even view the actual source of it because we AREN'T
>>OEM Builders!) with the EULA = End User License Agreement!
>>
>>
>>> He is deliberately being misleading.
>>
>>To what end? Why would any of the regulars here deliberately intend to
>>mislead anyone else here? This accusation makes no sense to me at all.
>
>
> I think you are being naive.

I honestly don't give rip what you may think of me, no offense intended
Kurt.

> There are some regulars that try to suck
> up to MS by giving misleading answers all the time.

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in doing so. It just doesn't
make any sense at all.

>
>>I think it's mis-firing braincells in his head, I swear. He just can't
>>get it through his thick numbskull that an END frikkin USER is not the
>>same as an OEM frikkin BUILDER! It doesn't matter that we may build
>>our own systems, lots of END frikkin USERS do that and always have,
>>we are NOT OEM frikkin BUILDERS! We don't have an agreement with MS
>>to be so and we've never agreed to ANYTHING but the gol-dern EULA!
>>And NO frikkin WHERE in an OEM EULA is the COMPUTER defined as the
>>MOTHERBOARD! NOWHERE! The EULA is what we've agreed to, nothing more
>>and nothing less. Something about his brain just hiccups on this crap
>>and he can't seem to comprehend the distinction.
>
>
>
> He owns a business that is a MS patner, and by muddying the waters he is
> trying to get people to buy more copies of software than they need.

Why? Does he get a kick-back or something? Why heck, if I could make a
buck or two by kissing MS's @$$ I might reconsider my position. ;)

>
> I believe he thinks he is helping MS.

Hah! Anyone with at least two functional braincells can see that MS
doesn't need any help from any of us bozos!

> He has been told over and over
> again, many dozens of times or more, that the SBL is in no way
> applicable to end users. At this point, he is either the densest person
> on the planet, or he is deliberately trying to confuse the issue.
>

I'll go with "the densest person on the planet", if you don't mind. At
least on this point anyway.

Steve

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Steve N. wrote:
> kurttrail wrote:
>
>> Steve N. wrote:
>>> To what end? Why would any of the regulars here deliberately intend
>>> to mislead anyone else here? This accusation makes no sense to me
>>> at all.
>>
>>
>> I think you are being naive.
>
> I honestly don't give rip what you may think of me, no offense
> intended Kurt.

LOL! Even if, no big one.

>
>> There are some regulars that try to suck
>> up to MS by giving misleading answers all the time.
>
> There is absolutely no point whatsoever in doing so. It just doesn't
> make any sense at all.

And Leythos is making sense in the first place?

>
>>
>>> I think it's mis-firing braincells in his head, I swear. He just
>>> can't get it through his thick numbskull that an END frikkin USER
>>> is not the same as an OEM frikkin BUILDER! It doesn't matter that
>>> we may build our own systems, lots of END frikkin USERS do that and
>>> always have, we are NOT OEM frikkin BUILDERS! We don't have an
>>> agreement with MS to be so and we've never agreed to ANYTHING but
>>> the gol-dern EULA! And NO frikkin WHERE in an OEM EULA is the
>>> COMPUTER defined as the MOTHERBOARD! NOWHERE! The EULA is what
>>> we've agreed to, nothing more and nothing less. Something about his
>>> brain just hiccups on this crap and he can't seem to comprehend the
>>> distinction.
>>
>>
>>
>> He owns a business that is a MS patner, and by muddying the waters
>> he is trying to get people to buy more copies of software than they
>> need.
>
> Why? Does he get a kick-back or something? Why heck, if I could make a
> buck or two by kissing MS's @$$ I might reconsider my position. ;)


LOL! Why does anyone suck up to MS? Leythos is one of those people
that sucks up to what they perceive is an authority.

>
>>
>> I believe he thinks he is helping MS.
>
> Hah! Anyone with at least two functional braincells can see that MS
> doesn't need any help from any of us bozos!

I agree, but those that believe in corporate rights over individual
rights wouldn't.

Leythos is a fascist. Both politically, and economically.

>
>> He has been told over and over
>> again, many dozens of times or more, that the SBL is in no way
>> applicable to end users. At this point, he is either the densest
>> person on the planet, or he is deliberately trying to confuse the
>> issue.
>
> I'll go with "the densest person on the planet", if you don't mind. At
> least on this point anyway.

Your choice, Steve. Read some of his political views about how he has
to live with the way this country is until they get rid of the
politically correct. About public executions. You may see that his
denseness is totally purposeful.

Like Geobbels theory about repeating the same lie over and over again
and you can get people to believe anything, that is what Leythos hopes
to accomplish. Cannot win an argument logically, win it through
repetition.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>
>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>
> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.

Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

David R. Norton MVP
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:

> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>>
>>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>>
>> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.
>
> Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!

Ah, but I did. I also ignored you this time. Don't try to figure it
out.

--
David R. Norton MVP
<d_r_norton@yahoo.com>

Kelly
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Hey wait......I know who Jackie Gleason is. TV is color now, yall guys need
to see the light!

--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com


"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:u%23t2onbWFHA.3140@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>>
>>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>>
>> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.
>
> Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>

Kelly
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Silly games!

--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com


"David R. Norton MVP" <d_r_nortonNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9657E70935103drnortonyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>
>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>>>
>>>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>>>
>>> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.
>>
>> Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!
>
> Ah, but I did. I also ignored you this time. Don't try to figure it
> out.
>
> --
> David R. Norton MVP
> <d_r_norton@yahoo.com>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
David R. Norton MVP wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>
>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>>>
>>>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>>>
>>> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.
>>
>> Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!
>
> Ah, but I did. I also ignored you this time. Don't try to figure it
> out.

LOL! Obviously you have a different defintion of "ignore" than the
dictionary.

Oh well, occasionally someone slips through who can't pass the MVP test
of connecting two dots.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Hi kurttrail,

> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>>
>>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>>> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>>>>
>>>>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>>>>
>>>> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.
>>>
>>> Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!
>>
>> Ah, but I did. I also ignored you this time. Don't try to figure it
>> out.
>
> LOL! Obviously you have a different defintion of "ignore" than the
> dictionary.
>
> Oh well, occasionally someone slips through who can't pass the MVP test
> of connecting two dots.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

I managed to connect three, but they were in a straight line, and they did
allow me to use a ruler. It only took me 12 tries.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
> Hi kurttrail,
>
> I managed to connect three, but they were in a straight line, and
> they did allow me to use a ruler. It only took me 12 tries.

LOL! Next time, don't go trying for extra credit!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Rock
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Kelly wrote:

> Hey wait......I know who Jackie Gleason is. TV is color now, yall guys need
> to see the light!
>

lol..don't hold your breath.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User

Kelly
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Are you sure, I shouldn't? <w>

--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com


"Rock" <rock@mail.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:uouGWPjWFHA.2448@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Kelly wrote:
>
>> Hey wait......I know who Jackie Gleason is. TV is color now, yall guys
>> need to see the light!
>>
>
> lol..don't hold your breath.
>
> --
> Rock
> MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
>

Kelly
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Shoot, Rick....mine had five, they weren't in a straight line and I didn't
get a ruler. After three tries I had to get back in line.

--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com


"Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ej1n5QhWFHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Hi kurttrail,
>
>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in:
>>>
>>>> David R. Norton MVP wrote:
>>>>> "Woody" <Woody@ByteMe.com> wrote in:
>>>>>
>>>>>> too young to know who jackie gleason is ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, old enough and smart enough to ignore anything Kurttrail says.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, but you didn't. So much for being smart enough!
>>>
>>> Ah, but I did. I also ignored you this time. Don't try to figure it
>>> out.
>>
>> LOL! Obviously you have a different defintion of "ignore" than the
>> dictionary.
>>
>> Oh well, occasionally someone slips through who can't pass the MVP test
>> of connecting two dots.
>>
>> --
>> Peace!
>> Kurt
>> Self-anointed Moderator
>> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
>> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
>> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
>> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
> I managed to connect three, but they were in a straight line, and they did
> allow me to use a ruler. It only took me 12 tries.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org


Win xp oem activation hits me clear as mud!