MS05-019 security update concern



Mark
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more problems in Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can cause DoS attacks? I thought I read an article somewhere that installing this flawed security update can cause more problems and its best to wait for Microsoft to re-release MS05-019.

I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update patch.

Thanks.

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Mark wrote:
> Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more
> problems in Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can cause
> DoS attacks? I thought I read an article somewhere that installing
> this flawed security update can cause more problems and its best to
> wait for Microsoft to re-release MS05-019.
>
> I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update
> patch.
>
> Thanks.

From "Microsoft Security Bulletin Minor Revisions" email:

* MS05-019
- http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-019.mspx
- Reason for revision: Microsoft updated this bulletin today to advise
customers that we plan to re-release the MS05-019 security update in
June, 2005. Until the re-release of this security update is available,
customers experiencing the symptoms described in Microsoft Knowledge
Base Article 898060 <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898060/> should
follow the documented instructions to address this issue. If you are
not experiencing this network connectivity issue we recommend that you
install the currently available security update to help protect against
the vulnerabilities described in this security bulletin.
- Originally posted: April 12, 2005
- Updated: May 11, 2005
- Bulletin Severity Rating: Critical
- Version: 1.1

--
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Hi Mark,

That update has caused some connectivity issues, not any security issues,
details here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898060

There is also both a *free* hotfix available as well as a documented
workaround, both of which are described in the above link. You should
install the update, and only remove it if it is causing the isolated problem
listed above and the fixes do not work. The update is scheduled to be
rereleased in June 2005.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Mark" <xpmark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea6CX4LWFHA.2572@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more problems in
Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can cause DoS attacks? I
thought I read an article somewhere that installing this flawed security
update can cause more problems and its best to wait for Microsoft to
re-release MS05-019.

I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update patch.

Thanks.

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not hassle-free.

"Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message news:ufSwCBMWFHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi Mark,

That update has caused some connectivity issues, not any security issues,
details here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898060

There is also both a *free* hotfix available as well as a documented
workaround, both of which are described in the above link. You should
install the update, and only remove it if it is causing the isolated problem
listed above and the fixes do not work. The update is scheduled to be
rereleased in June 2005.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Mark" <xpmark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea6CX4LWFHA.2572@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more problems in
Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can cause DoS attacks? I
thought I read an article somewhere that installing this flawed security
update can cause more problems and its best to wait for Microsoft to
re-release MS05-019.

I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update patch.

Thanks.

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I have been experience many Internet, VPN, and LAN connectivity problems in the past several weeks and I do have MS05-019 security update installed. Due to the majority Windows users responses of "your probably infected", I have been reguraly running anti-virus, anti-spyware, and anti-this-n-that to make sure no malware is running in XP. My XP system is clean based on those programs. Since Microsoft is so vulnerable to problems, its nearly impossible to know what is actually causing the problem. After reading about this security update, I wonder if this has been causing my problems.

Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore now of days.

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:%237yJlAMWFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:
> Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more
> problems in Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can cause
> DoS attacks? I thought I read an article somewhere that installing
> this flawed security update can cause more problems and its best to
> wait for Microsoft to re-release MS05-019.
>
> I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update
> patch.
>
> Thanks.

From "Microsoft Security Bulletin Minor Revisions" email:

* MS05-019
- http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-019.mspx
- Reason for revision: Microsoft updated this bulletin today to advise
customers that we plan to re-release the MS05-019 security update in
June, 2005. Until the re-release of this security update is available,
customers experiencing the symptoms described in Microsoft Knowledge
Base Article 898060 <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898060/> should
follow the documented instructions to address this issue. If you are
not experiencing this network connectivity issue we recommend that you
install the currently available security update to help protect against
the vulnerabilities described in this security bulletin.
- Originally posted: April 12, 2005
- Updated: May 11, 2005
- Bulletin Severity Rating: Critical
- Version: 1.1

--
Peace!
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Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

--
Peace!
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Mark wrote:
> I have been experience many Internet, VPN, and LAN connectivity
> problems in the past several weeks and I do have MS05-019 security
> update installed. Due to the majority Windows users responses of
> "your probably infected", I have been reguraly running anti-virus,
> anti-spyware, and anti-this-n-that to make sure no malware is running
> in XP. My XP system is clean based on those programs. Since
> Microsoft is so vulnerable to problems, its nearly impossible to know
> what is actually causing the problem. After reading about this
> security update, I wonder if this has been causing my problems.
>
> Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore
> now of days.
>
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
> message news:%237yJlAMWFHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Mark wrote:
> > Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more
> > problems in Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can
> cause
> > DoS attacks? I thought I read an article somewhere that
> installing
> > this flawed security update can cause more problems and its best
> to
> > wait for Microsoft to re-release MS05-019.
> >
> > I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update
> > patch.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> From "Microsoft Security Bulletin Minor Revisions" email:
>
> * MS05-019
> - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-019.mspx
> - Reason for revision: Microsoft updated this bulletin today to
> advise
> customers that we plan to re-release the MS05-019 security update in
> June, 2005. Until the re-release of this security update is
> available,
> customers experiencing the symptoms described in Microsoft Knowledge
> Base Article 898060 <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898060/> should
> follow the documented instructions to address this issue. If you
> are
> not experiencing this network connectivity issue we recommend that
> you
> install the currently available security update to help protect
> against
> the vulnerabilities described in this security bulletin.
> - Originally posted: April 12, 2005
> - Updated: May 11, 2005
> - Bulletin Severity Rating: Critical
> - Version: 1.1
>

1.) Call MS up for the Hotfix.

And/or


2.) Uninstall the MS05-19.

3.) Wait till next month for the rerelease.


--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Mark wrote:
> You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not
> hassle-free.
>

And if you have an OEM copy of XP they will pawn you off on the OEM that
supplied you withXP to get the Hotfix, and calling them up, they'll send
you back to MS.

If you are running behind a firewall, and running the latest AV defs,
you should be reasonably safe if you uninstall the patch until it is
rereleased next month.

--
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Kurt
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I have an OEM XP copy. This is another problem of MS. If an XP user needs a hotfix, an OEM may not have it and MS needs to provide it to the user.

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:eS33JZMWFHA.3636@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:
> You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not
> hassle-free.
>

And if you have an OEM copy of XP they will pawn you off on the OEM that
supplied you withXP to get the Hotfix, and calling them up, they'll send
you back to MS.

If you are running behind a firewall, and running the latest AV defs,
you should be reasonably safe if you uninstall the patch until it is
rereleased next month.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I've had no problems getting them, and no hassles. Just ask for the hotfix
by article number, you do not need to explain anything else.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Mark" <xpmark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e%23TCWLMWFHA.2124@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not
hassle-free.

"Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ufSwCBMWFHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi Mark,

That update has caused some connectivity issues, not any security issues,
details here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898060

There is also both a *free* hotfix available as well as a documented
workaround, both of which are described in the above link. You should
install the update, and only remove it if it is causing the isolated
problem
listed above and the fixes do not work. The update is scheduled to be
rereleased in June 2005.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Mark" <xpmark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea6CX4LWFHA.2572@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Does installing Microsoft security update MS05-019 cause more problems in
Windows XP (and Windows 2000) system where it can cause DoS attacks? I
thought I read an article somewhere that installing this flawed security
update can cause more problems and its best to wait for Microsoft to
re-release MS05-019.

I am asking to get clarification on the MS05-019 security update patch.

Thanks.

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Mark wrote:
> I have an OEM XP copy. This is another problem of MS. If an XP user
> needs a hotfix, an OEM may not have it and MS needs to provide it to
> the user.

Yeah, but I'd still try. If the phone rep, blows you off, ask to speak
with a supervisor. And explain calmly and rationally that you aren't
looking for support on your OEM software, but on the flawed patched.

You might get lucky.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
> I've had no problems getting them, and no hassles. Just ask for the
> hotfix by article number, you do not need to explain anything else.

Unfortunately, not everyone has been as lucky as you.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

NoStop
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Mark wrote:

> Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore now of
> days.
>
Then I guess it's time that you investigate an alternative to Windoze.
Personally, I'd recommend GNU/Linux. It's allowed me to get away from the
Windoze BS and on to a real secure, functional, FREE and fun to use OS that
has 100x's the power of Windoze.

Checkout Mandriva or SuSE for a couple of real easy to install and very
user-friendly Linux distributions.


--
-=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
community.
Q. But isn't that backasswards?
A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
Outlook Express under Windoze.
Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
NoStop wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>
>> Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore
>> now of days.
>>
> Then I guess it's time that you investigate an alternative to Windoze.
> Personally, I'd recommend GNU/Linux. It's allowed me to get away from
> the Windoze BS and on to a real secure, functional, FREE and fun to
> use OS that has 100x's the power of Windoze.
>
> Checkout Mandriva or SuSE for a couple of real easy to install and
> very user-friendly Linux distributions.

And what does this reply have to do with MS05-019?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

NoStop
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
kurttrail wrote:

> NoStop wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>>
>>> Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore
>>> now of days.
>>>
>> Then I guess it's time that you investigate an alternative to Windoze.
>> Personally, I'd recommend GNU/Linux. It's allowed me to get away from
>> the Windoze BS and on to a real secure, functional, FREE and fun to
>> use OS that has 100x's the power of Windoze.
>>
>> Checkout Mandriva or SuSE for a couple of real easy to install and
>> very user-friendly Linux distributions.
>
> And what does this reply have to do with MS05-019?
>
Nothing! But it is a way to get away from the chore of "diagnosing and
troubleshooting problems in Windows" that Mark was lamenting. Are you
incapable of reading and comprehending a message?

Like you ever stay "on topic" in terms of subjects in threads. Now screw off
and go play at your mickeyscrum.

--
-=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
community.
Q. But isn't that backasswards?
A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
Outlook Express under Windoze.
Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
NoStop wrote:
> kurttrail wrote:
>
>> NoStop wrote:
>>> Mark wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore
>>>> now of days.
>>>>
>>> Then I guess it's time that you investigate an alternative to
>>> Windoze. Personally, I'd recommend GNU/Linux. It's allowed me to
>>> get away from the Windoze BS and on to a real secure, functional,
>>> FREE and fun to use OS that has 100x's the power of Windoze.
>>>
>>> Checkout Mandriva or SuSE for a couple of real easy to install and
>>> very user-friendly Linux distributions.
>>
>> And what does this reply have to do with MS05-019?
>>
> Nothing!

Exactly!

> But it is a way to get away from the chore of "diagnosing and
> troubleshooting problems in Windows" that Mark was lamenting.

And exchange that for learning how to use Linux. Exchanging one chore
for another.

> Are you
> incapable of reading and comprehending a message?

Seems you are incapable of not trolling for Linux! This is a Windows
peer to peer support group. If you'd like to advocate for Linux, you
can always troll to your hearts content at comp.os.linux.advocacy.

>
> Like you ever stay "on topic" in terms of subjects in threads.

Actually, I try to be, but will follow someone off-topic when they are
making a fool out of themself. Just like now.

> Now
> screw off and go play at your mickeyscrum.

LOL! Troll is having a temper tantrum! Poor baby!

--
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Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

NoStop
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
kurttrail wrote:


> Seems you are incapable of not trolling for Linux! This is a Windows
> peer to peer support group. If you'd like to advocate for Linux, you
> can always troll to your hearts content at comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>

"support group"??? Is that why you offer support like the following (and I'm
quoting one of your posts today) ...

". . . . until you went messing around into stuff you didn't understand,
and now you want someone to bail you out of your self-created mess."

.... and then suggested he reformat his hard drive and re-install XP, because
he screwed up his own system and that should teach him a lesson.

At least my postings try to help other computer users, not just demean them.


--
-=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
community.
Q. But isn't that backasswards?
A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
Outlook Express under Windoze.
Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
NoStop wrote:
> kurttrail wrote:
>
>
>> Seems you are incapable of not trolling for Linux! This is a Windows
>> peer to peer support group. If you'd like to advocate for Linux, you
>> can always troll to your hearts content at comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>>
>
> "support group"??? Is that why you offer support like the following
> (and I'm quoting one of your posts today) ...
>
> ". . . . until you went messing around into stuff you didn't
> understand, and now you want someone to bail you out of your
> self-created mess."
>
> ... and then suggested he reformat his hard drive and re-install XP,
> because he screwed up his own system and that should teach him a
> lesson.

Yep. Some people need negative reinforcement to learn from. Giving a
moron an easy fix to a problem he/she created on their own is just
enabling them to do some more stupid things with their computer.

> At least my postings try to help other computer users,

By getting them to switch their windows problems for linux problems.
And Linux advocacy posts belong in COLA.

> not just
> demean them.

I didn't do it to demean. It's called tough love.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
In regards to the signature... its top posting because that is how OE6 defaults and its easier to just top post.

"NoStop" <nostop@stopspam.com> wrote in message news:ajxhe.1354077$Xk.268758@pd7tw3no...
kurttrail wrote:


> Seems you are incapable of not trolling for Linux! This is a Windows
> peer to peer support group. If you'd like to advocate for Linux, you
> can always troll to your hearts content at comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>

"support group"??? Is that why you offer support like the following (and I'm
quoting one of your posts today) ...

". . . . until you went messing around into stuff you didn't understand,
and now you want someone to bail you out of your self-created mess."

... and then suggested he reformat his hard drive and re-install XP, because
he screwed up his own system and that should teach him a lesson.

At least my postings try to help other computer users, not just demean them.


--
-=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
community.
Q. But isn't that backasswards?
A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
Outlook Express under Windoze.
Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Mark wrote:

> In regards to the signature... its top posting because that is how
> OE6 defaults and its easier to just top post.

LOL! That is just a lame excuse.

Many people that use OE don't top post, though I don't have a problem
with those people that top post out of personal choice.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
I like to top post, as I read posts sequentially and do not rely on having
to read only one post to see the entire thread.

If one were to do the latter, then bottom posting makes the most sense as
the entire post history is chronological. If you are reading the posts
sequentially, then top posting makes the most sense as who wants to scroll
through what they've already read repeatedly?

But, then again I also like to in-line post when there are a series of
questions to answer or points to be made. In any case, it has nothing to do
with what newsreader I use (I often post while running Linux installations,
no OE there!). Frankly I'd be more concerned about accuracy of information
than the order in which it appears.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:%235VqNnPWFHA.2448@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Mark wrote:
>
>> In regards to the signature... its top posting because that is how
>> OE6 defaults and its easier to just top post.
>
> LOL! That is just a lame excuse.
>
> Many people that use OE don't top post, though I don't have a problem with
> those people that top post out of personal choice.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
> I like to top post, as I read posts sequentially and do not rely on
> having to read only one post to see the entire thread.
>
> If one were to do the latter, then bottom posting makes the most
> sense as the entire post history is chronological. If you are reading
> the posts sequentially, then top posting makes the most sense as who
> wants to scroll through what they've already read repeatedly?
>
> But, then again I also like to in-line post when there are a series of
> questions to answer or points to be made. In any case, it has nothing
> to do with what newsreader I use (I often post while running Linux
> installations, no OE there!). Frankly I'd be more concerned about
> accuracy of information than the order in which it appears.

And as I have already said, I have no problem with those that top post
because their own personal choice.

Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it easier to top
post.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it easier to top
> post.

It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added function to
at least give the end-user an option to decide which it does. That's one
thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can quickly change the default
position depending on what group I'm in.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

<snip>

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
>> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it easier to
>> top post.
>
> It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added
> function to at least give the end-user an option to decide which it
> does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can
> quickly change the default position depending on what group I'm in.

It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do it.

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Mark
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Not an excuse, it just works better that way. If OE allowed you to highlight the portion of the e-mail you wanted to quote, which you can do in ancient Forte, Inc. Agent, that would help.

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:elhnnrUWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
>> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it easier to
>> top post.
>
> It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added
> function to at least give the end-user an option to decide which it
> does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can
> quickly change the default position depending on what group I'm in.

It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do it.

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kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
Mark wrote:

> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
>> message news:elhnnrUWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
>>>> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it
>>>> easier to
>>>> top post.
>>>
>>> It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added
>>> function to at least give the end-user an option to decide which
>>> it
>>> does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can
>>> quickly change the default position depending on what group I'm
>>> in.
>
>> It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do it.
>
> Not an excuse, it just works better that way. If OE allowed you to
> highlight the portion of the e-mail you wanted to quote, which you
> can do in ancient Forte, Inc. Agent, that would help.
>

What does selective quoting have to do with you excuse for top-posting?

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Mark
07-10-2005, 12:28 AM
What I experienced in the past is that selecting quoting positions the cursor below the quoted text without the mess of signatures and other quoted text that retains in a replied message.
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:ezgCQhVWFHA.1148@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:

> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
>> message news:elhnnrUWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
>>>> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it
>>>> easier to
>>>> top post.
>>>
>>> It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added
>>> function to at least give the end-user an option to decide which
>>> it
>>> does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can
>>> quickly change the default position depending on what group I'm
>>> in.
>
>> It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do it.
>
> Not an excuse, it just works better that way. If OE allowed you to
> highlight the portion of the e-mail you wanted to quote, which you
> can do in ancient Forte, Inc. Agent, that would help.
>

What does selective quoting have to do with you excuse for top-posting?

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kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Mark wrote:
> What I experienced in the past is that selecting quoting positions
> the cursor below the quoted text without the mess of signatures and
> other quoted text that retains in a replied message.

OE quotefix can position the cursor at the bottom of the post.


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Mark
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
When installing plug-ins or add-ons, those only make the program(s) more susceptible to crashes and other problems. This is why I avoid installing plug-ins or ad-ins to programs such as Internet Explorer.

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:%23fbVR5VWFHA.1044@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:
> What I experienced in the past is that selecting quoting positions
> the cursor below the quoted text without the mess of signatures and
> other quoted text that retains in a replied message.

OE quotefix can position the cursor at the bottom of the post.


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kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Mark wrote:
> When installing plug-ins or add-ons, those only make the program(s)
> more susceptible to crashes and other problems. This is why I avoid
> installing plug-ins or ad-ins to programs such as Internet Explorer.
>

More excuses.

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Mark
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Its called Trustworthy Computing. Less add-ons and plug-ins installed, less susceptible Windows to more infections, problems, etc.


"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:%23PgPrzWWFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:
> When installing plug-ins or add-ons, those only make the program(s)
> more susceptible to crashes and other problems. This is why I avoid
> installing plug-ins or ad-ins to programs such as Internet Explorer.
>

More excuses.

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kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Mark wrote:
> Its called Trustworthy Computing.

"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!

> Less add-ons and plug-ins
> installed, less susceptible Windows to more infections, problems,
> etc.

Have you actually tried OE Quotefix, or are you applying a
generalization to something without any specific knowledge of it?

Again, it is just another excuse to top post. I'd respect you more, if,
like Rick, you had a real reason why you thought top posting was better.
All you have given are excuses why you feel you have no choice but to
top post.

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Mark
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Top posted message are easier to read with no scrolling unless its a long message that requires scrolling. I used to in-context and bottom post messages, but many others that I communicated with simply top posted and it is now a normal conformity.

I tried OE Quotefix some time ago, probably over a year ago, and I did not care much for it from crashing OE6 quite a bit.


"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:uZuaIEXWFHA.1040@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:
> Its called Trustworthy Computing.

"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!

> Less add-ons and plug-ins
> installed, less susceptible Windows to more infections, problems,
> etc.

Have you actually tried OE Quotefix, or are you applying a
generalization to something without any specific knowledge of it?

Again, it is just another excuse to top post. I'd respect you more, if,
like Rick, you had a real reason why you thought top posting was better.
All you have given are excuses why you feel you have no choice but to
top post.

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Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
In article <uOurz9XWFHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>, xpmark@hotmail.com
says...
> Top posted message are easier to read with no scrolling unless its a long message that requires scrolling. I used to in-context and bottom post messages, but many others that I communicated with simply top posted and it is now a normal conformity.

And your OE does not properly post lines so that real newsreaders can
handle them. Top posting has ALWAYS been a problem. Since MS entered
Usenet with crappy tools and then Windows users hit the masses with
Intenret access we've had to deal with top posting people that still
have no clue or respect for the proper methods.

> I tried OE Quotefix some time ago, probably over a year ago, and I did not care much for it from crashing OE6 quite a bit.

OE is really a crappy Usenet client, there are many free clients that do
a much better (and more secure) job and don't have any of the issues
that OE does. Look at SuperGravity, it's free, so is PAN and many
others. If you spend any time on Usenet it will be well worth the
install time.

I'm not picking on you in this post, it's not intended as that, but it
is annoying that MS didn't create a proper Usenet client following the
standards when they started noticing the internet.

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kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Mark wrote:
> Top posted message are easier to read with no scrolling unless its a
> long message that requires scrolling. I used to in-context and
> bottom post messages, but many others that I communicated with simply
> top posted and it is now a normal conformity.

That is worse than an excuse, you top post out of conformity!

>
> I tried OE Quotefix some time ago, probably over a year ago, and I
> did not care much for it from crashing OE6 quite a bit.

Never saw it crash OE. You probably had other problems.

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Kevin Brunt (Fat B@stard)!!
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
The main problem of using non microsoft products is that you don't get many pirated software! PERIOD

Kev


NoStop wrote:
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> > Diagnosing and troubleshooting problems in Windows is such a chore now of
> > days.
> >
> Then I guess it's time that you investigate an alternative to Windoze.
> Personally, I'd recommend GNU/Linux. It's allowed me to get away from the
> Windoze BS and on to a real secure, functional, FREE and fun to use OS that
> has 100x's the power of Windoze.
>
> Checkout Mandriva or SuSE for a couple of real easy to install and very
> user-friendly Linux distributions.
>
> --
> -=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
> A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
> community.
> Q. But isn't that backasswards?
> A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
> Outlook Express under Windoze.
> Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

NoStop
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
Leythos wrote:

> OE is really a crappy Usenet client, there are many free clients that do
> a much better (and more secure) job and don't have any of the issues
> that OE does. Look at SuperGravity, it's free, so is PAN and many
> others. If you spend any time on Usenet it will be well worth the
> install time.
>

As I've said before - M$ users are forced to march to a different drum beat
- one created and orchestrated by M$ and one that purposely breaks the
standards. It is only by breaking standards that M$ can keep its users
locked into the M$ marketing machine and keep users dependent and paying
for M$ next "solution" or "innovation".

http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_3.html


--
-=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
community.
Q. But isn't that backasswards?
A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
Outlook Express under Windoze.
Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

CS
07-10-2005, 12:29 AM
On Sun, 15 May 2005 08:31:29 -0400, "Rick \"Nutcase\" Rogers"
<rick@mvps.org> wrote:

>It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added function to
>at least give the end-user an option to decide which it does. That's one
>thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can quickly change the default
>position depending on what group I'm in.

Rick:

If I may ask - which newsreader do you prefer when using Linux?
Currently when in Linux I'm using PAN. (Sorry about the OT.)

Regards.

Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
kurttrail wrote:

> Mark wrote:
>
>>You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not
>>hassle-free.
>>
>
>
> And if you have an OEM copy of XP they will pawn you off on the OEM that
> supplied you withXP to get the Hotfix, and calling them up, they'll send
> you back to MS.

I've never had a problem getting a hotfix from MS for an OEM OS but I
haven't done it in quite a while. Are you speaking from experience?

Steve

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:30 AM
Steve N. wrote:
> kurttrail wrote:
>
>> Mark wrote:
>>
>>> You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not
>>> hassle-free.
>>>
>>
>>
>> And if you have an OEM copy of XP they will pawn you off on the OEM
>> that supplied you withXP to get the Hotfix, and calling them up,
>> they'll send you back to MS.
>
> I've never had a problem getting a hotfix from MS for an OEM OS but I
> haven't done it in quite a while. Are you speaking from experience?
>

Nope, just from what others have reported.

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Steve N.
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
kurttrail wrote:

> Steve N. wrote:
>
>>kurttrail wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mark wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You have to contact M$ to get the hotfix, so it may be free, but not
>>>>hassle-free.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And if you have an OEM copy of XP they will pawn you off on the OEM
>>>that supplied you withXP to get the Hotfix, and calling them up,
>>>they'll send you back to MS.
>>
>>I've never had a problem getting a hotfix from MS for an OEM OS but I
>>haven't done it in quite a while. Are you speaking from experience?
>>
>
>
> Nope, just from what others have reported.
>

Most what I've read concerning hotfix resolution problems over the last
few years have been the result of someone misreading the information in
the first place and never making the call due to fear of possibly being
changed for it.

Steve

BBUNNY
07-10-2005, 12:31 AM
You top post, you post using HTML and your message body is just one
looong line.....The _biggie_ is defending this behavior....

Mark wrote:
| Not an excuse, it just works better that way. If OE allowed you to
| highlight the portion of the e-mail you wanted to quote, which you
| can do in ancient Forte, Inc. Agent, that would help.

| "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
| message news:elhnnrUWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
| >> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it
| easier to
| >> top post.
| >
| > It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added
| > function to at least give the end-user an option to decide which
| it
| > does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can
| > quickly change the default position depending on what group I'm
| in.
|
| It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do it.

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
OE works fine for me.
"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message news:MPG.1cf16a3493cf9c8798976e@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
In article <uOurz9XWFHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>, xpmark@hotmail.com
says...
> Top posted message are easier to read with no scrolling unless its a long message that requires scrolling. I used to in-context and bottom post messages, but many others that I communicated with simply top posted and it is now a normal conformity.

And your OE does not properly post lines so that real newsreaders can
handle them. Top posting has ALWAYS been a problem. Since MS entered
Usenet with crappy tools and then Windows users hit the masses with
Intenret access we've had to deal with top posting people that still
have no clue or respect for the proper methods.

> I tried OE Quotefix some time ago, probably over a year ago, and I did not care much for it from crashing OE6 quite a bit.

OE is really a crappy Usenet client, there are many free clients that do
a much better (and more secure) job and don't have any of the issues
that OE does. Look at SuperGravity, it's free, so is PAN and many
others. If you spend any time on Usenet it will be well worth the
install time.

I'm not picking on you in this post, it's not intended as that, but it
is annoying that MS didn't create a proper Usenet client following the
standards when they started noticing the internet.

--
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Mark
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
How I see it, Microsoft is so dominate, might as well just stay with a standard of programs -- Microsoft's.

"NoStop" <nostop@stopspam.com> wrote in message news:5QOhe.1362143$6l.6969@pd7tw2no...
Leythos wrote:

> OE is really a crappy Usenet client, there are many free clients that do
> a much better (and more secure) job and don't have any of the issues
> that OE does. Look at SuperGravity, it's free, so is PAN and many
> others. If you spend any time on Usenet it will be well worth the
> install time.
>

As I've said before - M$ users are forced to march to a different drum beat
- one created and orchestrated by M$ and one that purposely breaks the
standards. It is only by breaking standards that M$ can keep its users
locked into the M$ marketing machine and keep users dependent and paying
for M$ next "solution" or "innovation".

http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_3.html


--
-=[ *Usenet FAQ* ]=-
A. Yes it is. It's called "Top Posting" and frowned on by the Usenet
community.
Q. But isn't that backasswards?
A. If their reply comes BEFORE what they are quoting, they probably use
Outlook Express under Windoze.
Q. How can I tell what OS a Usenet poster runs?

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
Whenever there is a Windows or program problems, its always related to another process or program error/problem or something unexplainable.
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message news:uYYmzeYWFHA.2424@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Mark wrote:
> Top posted message are easier to read with no scrolling unless its a
> long message that requires scrolling. I used to in-context and
> bottom post messages, but many others that I communicated with simply
> top posted and it is now a normal conformity.

That is worse than an excuse, you top post out of conformity!

>
> I tried OE Quotefix some time ago, probably over a year ago, and I
> did not care much for it from crashing OE6 quite a bit.

Never saw it crash OE. You probably had other problems.

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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Mark
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
I just use the OE default settings.
"BBUNNY" <bbunny@bqik.net> wrote in message news:%23bsIMEnWFHA.4036@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
You top post, you post using HTML and your message body is just one
looong line.....The _biggie_ is defending this behavior....

Mark wrote:
| Not an excuse, it just works better that way. If OE allowed you to
| highlight the portion of the e-mail you wanted to quote, which you
| can do in ancient Forte, Inc. Agent, that would help.

| "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
| message news:elhnnrUWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
| >> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it
| easier to
| >> top post.
| >
| > It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an added
| > function to at least give the end-user an option to decide which
| it
| > does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I can
| > quickly change the default position depending on what group I'm
| in.
|
| It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do it.

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
Mark wrote:
> Whenever there is a Windows or program problems, its always related
> to another process or program error/problem or something
> unexplainable.

LOL! No such thing as a Windows problem? I wonder why MS keep patching
something that never has a problem?

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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

kurttrail
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
Mark wrote:
> I just use the OE default settings.
> "BBUNNY" <bbunny@bqik.net> wrote in message
> news:%23bsIMEnWFHA.4036@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> You top post, you post using HTML and your message body is just one
> looong line.....The _biggie_ is defending this behavior....
>
> Mark wrote:
> | Not an excuse, it just works better that way. If OE allowed you
> to
> | highlight the portion of the e-mail you wanted to quote, which you
> | can do in ancient Forte, Inc. Agent, that would help.
>
> | "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
> | message news:elhnnrUWFHA.628@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> | Rick "Nutcase" Rogers wrote:
> | >> Mark was basically saying he top posts because OE makes it
> | easier to
> | >> top post.
> | >
> | > It does do that, and I know of many who have asked for an
> added
> | > function to at least give the end-user an option to decide
> which
> | it
> | > does. That's one thing I like about my Linux newsreader, as I
> can
> | > quickly change the default position depending on what group
> I'm
> | in.
> |
> | It is just an excuse. Basically saying the devil makes him do
> it.

No you don't.

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Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
In article <OxzXBCzWFHA.2348@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, xpmark@hotmail.com
says...
> As I've said before - M$ users are forced to march to a different drum beat
> - one created and orchestrated by M$ and one that purposely breaks the
> standards. It is only by breaking standards that M$ can keep its users
> locked into the M$ marketing machine and keep users dependent and paying
> for M$ next "solution" or "innovation".

No MS users are forced to use anything from MS, it's a choice. As an
example, you can use Open Office or Star Office, you can use Nero to
burn CD/DVD/VCD's, you can use other media players, you can use
Photoshop and page maker......

You are only limited to MS Products out of ignorance.

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NoStop
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
Leythos wrote:

> In article <OxzXBCzWFHA.2348@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, xpmark@hotmail.com
> says...
>> As I've said before - M$ users are forced to march to a different drum
>> beat - one created and orchestrated by M$ and one that purposely breaks
>> the standards. It is only by breaking standards that M$ can keep its
>> users locked into the M$ marketing machine and keep users dependent and
>> paying for M$ next "solution" or "innovation".
>
> No MS users are forced to use anything from MS, it's a choice. As an
> example, you can use Open Office or Star Office, you can use Nero to
> burn CD/DVD/VCD's, you can use other media players, you can use
> Photoshop and page maker......
>
> You are only limited to MS Products out of ignorance.
>
Tell that to a company that does business with other companies all using
MickeyMouse's Word that creates proprietary DOC files that aren't rendered
properly by alternative products. In fact, to keep people buying their
office suite, they'll even make it so their files can't be read properly by
earlier versions of their suite. The only way to break the M$ monopoly is
to adopt another OS, not by purchasing 3rd party tools that work better
than the crap M$ sells.

--
Re: Micro$oft OneCare:
"When a company is run like the mafia why would you not expect them to
progress to charging protection money." NF

Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
In article <lbvie.1394026$8l.399690@pd7tw1no>, nostop@stopspam.com
says...
> Leythos wrote:
>
> > In article <OxzXBCzWFHA.2348@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, xpmark@hotmail.com
> > says...
> >> As I've said before - M$ users are forced to march to a different drum
> >> beat - one created and orchestrated by M$ and one that purposely breaks
> >> the standards. It is only by breaking standards that M$ can keep its
> >> users locked into the M$ marketing machine and keep users dependent and
> >> paying for M$ next "solution" or "innovation".
> >
> > No MS users are forced to use anything from MS, it's a choice. As an
> > example, you can use Open Office or Star Office, you can use Nero to
> > burn CD/DVD/VCD's, you can use other media players, you can use
> > Photoshop and page maker......
> >
> > You are only limited to MS Products out of ignorance.
> >
> Tell that to a company that does business with other companies all using
> MickeyMouse's Word that creates proprietary DOC files that aren't rendered
> properly by alternative products. In fact, to keep people buying their
> office suite, they'll even make it so their files can't be read properly by
> earlier versions of their suite. The only way to break the M$ monopoly is
> to adopt another OS, not by purchasing 3rd party tools that work better
> than the crap M$ sells.

You don't know much. I design solutions around MS Networks and Fedora
Core 3 and all sorts of other vendors products. I don't see any issues
with choice or people that decided to use a different path for
foundations in business. You might do better if you enlarged your frame
of reference and scope.


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Kevin Brunt (Fat B@stard)!!
07-10-2005, 12:35 AM
What I gather from Leythos' messages is that he uses Linux and other non-microsoft products but he still keeps posting to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general newsgroup! and drives everybody mad. Did somebody say immitation is the best form of flattery? I am quite sure Uncle Bill would like to have his custom so that he (i.e. Leythos) can criticise M$ with authority, conviction and above all current personal experience!! He is free to remain in the sideline and shout the grapes are sour!

I use Mozilla because it can create ascii file for messages to be edited manually otherwise I would recommend my college to enable IE6 and outlook express on all PCs!

Fat Kevin




Leythos wrote:
>
> In article <uOurz9XWFHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>, xpmark@hotmail.com
> says...
> > Top posted message are easier to read with no scrolling unless its a long message that requires scrolling. I used to in-context and bottom post messages, but many others that I communicated with simply top posted and it is now a normal conformity.
>
> And your OE does not properly post lines so that real newsreaders can
> handle them. Top posting has ALWAYS been a problem. Since MS entered
> Usenet with crappy tools and then Windows users hit the masses with
> Intenret access we've had to deal with top posting people that still
> have no clue or respect for the proper methods.
>
> > I tried OE Quotefix some time ago, probably over a year ago, and I did not care much for it from crashing OE6 quite a bit.
>
> OE is really a crappy Usenet client, there are many free clients that do
> a much better (and more secure) job and don't have any of the issues
> that OE does. Look at SuperGravity, it's free, so is PAN and many
> others. If you spend any time on Usenet it will be well worth the
> install time.
>
> I'm not picking on you in this post, it's not intended as that, but it
> is annoying that MS didn't create a proper Usenet client following the
> standards when they started noticing the internet.
>
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Leythos
07-10-2005, 12:35 AM
In article <7371CF1E.F9B84371@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>, k.brunt@ccs.bbk.ac.uk
says...
>
> What I gather from Leythos' messages is that he uses Linux and other non-microsoft products but he still keeps posting to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general newsgroup! and drives everybody mad. Did somebody say immitation is the best form of flattery? I am quite sure Uncle Bill would like to have his custom so that he (i.e. Leythos) can criticise M$ with authority, conviction and above all current personal experience!! He is free to remain in the sideline and shout
the grapes are sour!

I don't think you know enough about me - I have a company that is a MS
partner, have built millions in MS Solutions in the last 18 months, and
I'm not blind to other solutions/paths.

My only complaint is, with Outlook Express, is that it's not a proper
email client and leads ignorant users to post incorrectly in what was/is
an already established community. On top of that, there are people, that
when informed of their mistake, still choose to post incorrectly.

> I use Mozilla because it can create ascii file for messages to be edited manually otherwise I would recommend my college to enable IE6 and outlook express on all PCs!

I use the best products for the task at hand. I have no preference to
any OS or platform/application/vendor.

Oh, one other thing, I happen to own more than a dozen licensed MS
Servers, Exchange servers, and dozens of fully licensed Windows based
workstations. I also happen to own 50 licenses for MS Office 2003 SBE,
and even 2 CPU licenses for MS SQL, so I'm hardly a non-MS type
guy/business owner.


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MS05-019 security update concern