OT: Anyone know of a good illuminated keyboard?



danny
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Hi all.

I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a better
response here since there are alot of people participating.

Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting in
front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn off the
lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the keyboard. Not
to mention that the contrast between the screen brightness and then
sstraining to look at a dark keyboard might contribute to some of those
computer vision syndrome related problems. Because I work in IT, I'll often
spend over 10 hours a day sitting in front of a computer screen, and I do
get odd headaches and eye strain every now and again.

I'll probably need to go see an eye specialist who can prescribe special
computer glasses (like regular glasses, but prescribed specifically for
computer use), but in the meantime I think an illluminated keyboard is
something that might also help.

I searched on ebay using "illumiated keyboard" and got several hits, but
they all look like no-name or unknown companies selling them. I found some
others selling at a local computer shop, but those particular models has
negative reviews where people stated they were substandard quality for a
keyboard.

Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!

dan

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
danny wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a
> better response here since there are alot of people participating.
>
> Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting
> in front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn
> off the lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the
> keyboard. Not to mention that the contrast between the screen
> brightness and then sstraining to look at a dark keyboard might
> contribute to some of those computer vision syndrome related
> problems. Because I work in IT, I'll often spend over 10 hours a day
> sitting in front of a computer screen, and I do get odd headaches and
> eye strain every now and again.
> I'll probably need to go see an eye specialist who can prescribe
> special computer glasses (like regular glasses, but prescribed
> specifically for computer use), but in the meantime I think an
> illluminated keyboard is something that might also help.
>
> I searched on ebay using "illumiated keyboard" and got several hits,
> but they all look like no-name or unknown companies selling them. I
> found some others selling at a local computer shop, but those
> particular models has negative reviews where people stated they were
> substandard quality for a keyboard.
>
> Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!
>
> dan

Learn to type without looking at the keyboard.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Jack
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
www.tigerdirect.com has a nice lighted keyboard.......


"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23q439$JWFHA.3488@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hi all.
>
> I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a better
> response here since there are alot of people participating.
>
> Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting in
> front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn off the
> lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the keyboard.
> Not to mention that the contrast between the screen brightness and then
> sstraining to look at a dark keyboard might contribute to some of those
> computer vision syndrome related problems. Because I work in IT, I'll
> often spend over 10 hours a day sitting in front of a computer screen, and
> I do get odd headaches and eye strain every now and again.
>
> I'll probably need to go see an eye specialist who can prescribe special
> computer glasses (like regular glasses, but prescribed specifically for
> computer use), but in the meantime I think an illluminated keyboard is
> something that might also help.
>
> I searched on ebay using "illumiated keyboard" and got several hits, but
> they all look like no-name or unknown companies selling them. I found
> some others selling at a local computer shop, but those particular models
> has negative reviews where people stated they were substandard quality for
> a keyboard.
>
> Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!
>
> dan
>

danny
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the link. Actually, this is one of the places I looked at and
read a couple of negative feedbacks from users.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1242217&Tab=11&NoMapp=0

danny
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:

> At least this dickhead can type without looking at the keyboard!

Good point, dickhead! You definitely got one up on me. So why bother to
buy a keyboard which has printed letters on it? Since you like to tout the
fact that you can type without looking at the keys, you should just use a
keyboard with unmarked keys... right? I mean come on, what's the point in
wasting ink to write the letters on the keys? I mentioned that I suffer
from headaches and eye strain, and the light would help me, but that seems
to have gone over your head. Can't expect much from a dickhead I guess.

dan

Steve N.
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
danny wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a better
> response here since there are alot of people participating.
>
> Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting in
> front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn off the
> lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the keyboard. Not
> to mention that the contrast between the screen brightness and then
> sstraining to look at a dark keyboard might contribute to some of those
> computer vision syndrome related problems. Because I work in IT, I'll often
> spend over 10 hours a day sitting in front of a computer screen, and I do
> get odd headaches and eye strain every now and again.
>
> I'll probably need to go see an eye specialist who can prescribe special
> computer glasses (like regular glasses, but prescribed specifically for
> computer use), but in the meantime I think an illluminated keyboard is
> something that might also help.
>
> I searched on ebay using "illumiated keyboard" and got several hits, but
> they all look like no-name or unknown companies selling them. I found some
> others selling at a local computer shop, but those particular models has
> negative reviews where people stated they were substandard quality for a
> keyboard.
>
> Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!
>
> dan
>
>

I'm sorry I don't have an answer but I'm not so sure using a computer in
complete darkness is all that good for your eyes either.

steve

DBCooper
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in
news:#q439$JWFHA.3488@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> Hi all.
>
> I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a
> better response here since there are alot of people participating.
>
> Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting
> in front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn
> off the lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the
> keyboard.
>
> Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!
>
> dan
>
>

I am not personally familiar with this company, but check it out.

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/gamekeyboardss.htm

07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:ONiKbiKWFHA.616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for the great tip, dickhead. I'll get right on that.
>
> dan
>


Actually it wasn't such a bad recommendation. Having to look down at
the keyboard and watch as you type will slow you down A LOT. You
actually do have to practice not looking at the keyboard so it becomes
instinctive as to where your blind fingers will move to hit a particular
key. Except for very fast speakers, I can type as fast or a bit faster
than most people can type (except, of course, for content like
formulae). This is not because I'm so proud and have to announce that I
can type like I'm expected to after years of exposure and practice. I
mention it because someone that uses computers and needs to use a
keyboard should learn that skill, and it is a skill that needs to be
learned and practiced. It is difficult to impress someone that you are
a computer profession when you have to hunt and peck around the keyboard
or watch your fingers. Marksman don't watch their fingers. Athletes
don't watch their fingers. Pianists (good ones) don't watch their
fingers. You won't get good at keyboarding unless you actually practice
at it. Make sure you practice on the type of keyboard you use most.
Practicing on a standard 101-key keyboard doesn't give you quite the
same skill level as practicing on one of those split keyboards, like the
Microsoft Natural keyboard.

Also, if you are having eye strain looking at the screen when the room
is dark (or bright) then maybe you should reconsider going to a lower
screen resolution. Having lots more displayed simultaneously on the
screen might seem a good idea but if you are getting headaches then
lower the resolution and learn to scroll around. We have a coworker in
our group that thinks 1600x1200 resolution is great so he can have more
windows concurrently opened on his screen (rather than using virtual
desktops) but the character size is so small that he gets headaches and
no one can help him while looking over his shoulder because they can't
read his screen. Regardless of how high in resolution you go, the
number of pixels on the screen doesn't change. Smaller characters will
look fuzzier, have less contrast, and simply be harder to differentiate.

If I understand correctly, you are lowering the brightness of the screen
when the room is dark which then affords less radiated light from the
monitor to see your keyboard. So why not put a lamp nearby, either one
of those hi-intensity desklamps that have multiple brightness settings
or just an incandescent lamp using a 3-way bulb or put a dimmer inline
with its power cord? The additional light will also force your pupil to
be smaller (it takes muscles to open your pupil, and when working in dim
light for extended times then those muscles will get sore from
constantly keeping your pupils open wider to take in more light because
you reduced the brightness of the monitor). Optometrists use drops to
contract the dilator muscles to force the pupil to open wider, but you
are having to exercise your own muscles to do the same while working in
the dark with a dim monitor. If you are adamant in viewing an overly
dim monitor, take a break every half hour to close your eyes for a
couple minutes to let the dilator muscle relax.

http://www.xoxide.com/keyboards.html has some blue LED illuminated
keyboards. I'm sure a Google search would turn up others. However, as
to their quality, they're probably no more shitty and no stronger than
all the other keyboards. Nowadays, all keyboards are shitty. They
won't take much fist pounding (like the old Northgate keyboards) and
they twist easier than French bread. Depending on your usage, most
will eventually get a bit stickier unless you are hitting the key
straight down (i.e., plastic shaft sliding past a plastic sheath or
collar) and their contacts don't last as long as the old rock-solid
industrial quality keyboards. But then basic keyboards are damn cheap
these days, often under $10. When comparing cheap consumer-grade
keyboards you mostly judge by feel (when pressing the keys) and extra
features since quality is not [much of] an issue. Buy 2 of them. Then
when one breaks, you've got a spare while sending in the broken one (if
you choose to bother since you could buy another for the cost of
shipping the broken one).

--
____________________________________________________________
** Post your replies to the newsgroup - Share with others **
For e-mail Reply: remove "DELETE", add "~VN56~" to Subject.
____________________________________________________________

danny
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
That's awesome -- exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

dan

T. Waters
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Quote:
"The additional light will also force your pupil to be smaller (it takes
muscles to open your pupil, and when working in dim light for extended times
then those muscles will get sore from constantly keeping your pupils open
wider to take in more light because you reduced the brightness of the
monitor)."
Actually, you have it backwards. Have you ever looked into the eyes of a
dead person? The pupil is wide open. It is bright light that causes a muscle
reflex (in the living). Further, staring into a computer screen would not
cause great pupil dilation, as the screen is actually quite bright. There
could be some fatigue caused by looking back and forth from the screen to
the keyboard, if the keyboard were very dim.
In addition to lighted keyboards, there are "USB computer lights" of
which I have seen many lately. These lights are not expensive at all:
http://www.exploratoriumstore.com/usbcoli.html
They serve the same purpose as a lighted keyboard, They are LED lights and
are designed to plug into the USB in the front of the tower (tower on desk,
of course), or into a laptop. If the tower lacks a USB port in front, a USB
cable should solve that problem.
PS: For computing in dim light, avoid black keyboards.


Vanguard wrote:
> "danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ONiKbiKWFHA.616@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> Thanks for the great tip, dickhead. I'll get right on that.
>>
>> dan
>>
>
>
> Actually it wasn't such a bad recommendation. Having to look down at
> the keyboard and watch as you type will slow you down A LOT. You
> actually do have to practice not looking at the keyboard so it becomes
> instinctive as to where your blind fingers will move to hit a
> particular key. Except for very fast speakers, I can type as fast or
> a bit faster than most people can type (except, of course, for
> content like formulae). This is not because I'm so proud and have to
> announce that I can type like I'm expected to after years of exposure
> and practice. I mention it because someone that uses computers and
> needs to use a keyboard should learn that skill, and it is a skill
> that needs to be learned and practiced. It is difficult to impress
> someone that you are a computer profession when you have to hunt and
> peck around the keyboard or watch your fingers. Marksman don't watch
> their fingers. Athletes don't watch their fingers. Pianists (good
> ones) don't watch their fingers. You won't get good at keyboarding
> unless you actually practice at it. Make sure you practice on the
> type of keyboard you use most. Practicing on a standard 101-key
> keyboard doesn't give you quite the same skill level as practicing on
> one of those split keyboards, like the Microsoft Natural keyboard.
>
> Also, if you are having eye strain looking at the screen when the room
> is dark (or bright) then maybe you should reconsider going to a lower
> screen resolution. Having lots more displayed simultaneously on the
> screen might seem a good idea but if you are getting headaches then
> lower the resolution and learn to scroll around. We have a coworker
> in our group that thinks 1600x1200 resolution is great so he can have
> more windows concurrently opened on his screen (rather than using
> virtual desktops) but the character size is so small that he gets
> headaches and no one can help him while looking over his shoulder
> because they can't read his screen. Regardless of how high in
> resolution you go, the number of pixels on the screen doesn't change.
> Smaller characters will look fuzzier, have less contrast, and simply
> be harder to differentiate.
>
> If I understand correctly, you are lowering the brightness of the
> screen when the room is dark which then affords less radiated light
> from the monitor to see your keyboard. So why not put a lamp nearby,
> either one of those hi-intensity desklamps that have multiple
> brightness settings or just an incandescent lamp using a 3-way bulb
> or put a dimmer inline with its power cord? The additional light
> will also force your pupil to be smaller (it takes muscles to open
> your pupil, and when working in dim light for extended times then
> those muscles will get sore from constantly keeping your pupils open
> wider to take in more light because you reduced the brightness of the
> monitor). Optometrists use drops to contract the dilator muscles to
> force the pupil to open wider, but you are having to exercise your
> own muscles to do the same while working in the dark with a dim
> monitor. If you are adamant in viewing an overly dim monitor, take a
> break every half hour to close your eyes for a couple minutes to let
> the dilator muscle relax.
>
> http://www.xoxide.com/keyboards.html has some blue LED illuminated
> keyboards. I'm sure a Google search would turn up others. However,
> as to their quality, they're probably no more shitty and no stronger
> than all the other keyboards. Nowadays, all keyboards are shitty.
> They won't take much fist pounding (like the old Northgate keyboards)
> and they twist easier than French bread. Depending on your usage,
> most will eventually get a bit stickier unless you are hitting the key
> straight down (i.e., plastic shaft sliding past a plastic sheath or
> collar) and their contacts don't last as long as the old rock-solid
> industrial quality keyboards. But then basic keyboards are damn cheap
> these days, often under $10. When comparing cheap consumer-grade
> keyboards you mostly judge by feel (when pressing the keys) and extra
> features since quality is not [much of] an issue. Buy 2 of them.
> Then when one breaks, you've got a spare while sending in the broken
> one (if you choose to bother since you could buy another for the cost
> of shipping the broken one).

DBCooper
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in news:#rfUEWLWFHA.3620
@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

> That's awesome -- exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
>
> dan
>
>

My friend just told me he uses the Eclipse keyboard. It has
backlighting, and the keys also let light through. He says much better
than the backlight only Gamer's Keyboard. Here's a picture.

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20050409/index.html

Have fun.

danny
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Thanks for your report.... and what a waste of time it was. So you're
saying that all computer professionals must be able to type without looking
at the keyboard, eh? Listen closely, because I think you are a little dense
there -- I can appreciate someone telling me in a *polite and constructive
way* that it might be a good idea to learn to type without looking at a
keyboard. This is not my issue. Its the arrogant and condescending way the
comment was made which I have an issue with.

No need to write me an multi-page essay to justify the person's comment. He
knew what he was saying, and he was being a smartass plain and simple.
Don't insult my intelligence by telling me it "it wasn't such a bad
recommendation". I didn't come here to be lectured by you or anyone else
about how marksmen don't need to look at the trigger, and piano players
don't look at the keys, etc. Get off your high horse dude!! Jesus Christ!

I can type very fast and accurately not having to look at the keyboard all
the time... but I do occasionally glance down at the keyboard as I am not an
expert like yourself or that other dickhead who responded.

Yeah, so check it out dude -- I didn't bother to read past the first
paragraph of your response, as I fell asleep after I detected the tone of
mentor and coach. All I was asking was if anyone knows of any good
illuminated keyboards.... I didn't come hear to hear you rhyme, so give it a
rest Jethro.

dan

T. Waters
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Steve N. wrote:
> danny wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a
>> better response here since there are alot of people participating.
>>
>> Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting
>> in front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn
>> off the lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the
>> keyboard. Not to mention that the contrast between the screen
>> brightness and then sstraining to look at a dark keyboard might
>> contribute to some of those computer vision syndrome related
>> problems. Because I work in IT, I'll often spend over 10 hours a
>> day sitting in front of a computer screen, and I do get odd
>> headaches and eye strain every now and again.
>>
>> I'll probably need to go see an eye specialist who can prescribe
>> special computer glasses (like regular glasses, but prescribed
>> specifically for computer use), but in the meantime I think an
>> illluminated keyboard is something that might also help.
>>
>> I searched on ebay using "illumiated keyboard" and got several hits,
>> but they all look like no-name or unknown companies selling them. I
>> found some others selling at a local computer shop, but those
>> particular models has negative reviews where people stated they were
>> substandard quality for a keyboard.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!
>>
>> dan
>>
>>
>
> I'm sorry I don't have an answer but I'm not so sure using a computer
> in complete darkness is all that good for your eyes either.
>
> steve

Using a keyboard in darkness does not cause eyestrain, and in the vast
majority of individuals will not cause permanent harm to vision, despite
what our mothers told us about reading in the dark. I compute in the dark a
lot, and use the light from the CRT screen to illuminate my keyboard. No
problems, and actually, the screen is plenty bright to prevent eyestrain. A
USB computer light would be nice, but since I have a light-colored keyboard,
I get by just fine.
Never in 1,000 years will this typist ever be able to get by without looking
at the KB. Been there, found I am as likely to type an L as an S, as likely
to type an N as an M.. Blame it on my brain!

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
And I was just wondering why I hadn't noticed any of my posts being
censored recently! ROFL!

http://microscum.com/censored/200505141344/
http://microscum.com/censored/

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
"T. Waters" <@$%$%#^@jdjgkl.com> wrote in message
news:euTXYgLWFHA.2740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

> Quote (from Vanguard):
> "The additional light will also force your pupil to be smaller (it
> takes
> muscles to open your pupil, and when working in dim light for extended
> times
> then those muscles will get sore from constantly keeping your pupils
> open
> wider to take in more light because you reduced the brightness of the
> monitor)."

> Actually, you have it backwards. Have you ever looked into the eyes
> of a
> dead person? The pupil is wide open. It is bright light that causes a
> muscle
> reflex (in the living). Further, staring into a computer screen would
> not
> cause great pupil dilation, as the screen is actually quite bright.
> There
> could be some fatigue caused by looking back and forth from the screen
> to
> the keyboard, if the keyboard were very dim.
> In addition to lighted keyboards, there are "USB computer lights" of
> which I have seen many lately. These lights are not expensive at all:
> http://www.exploratoriumstore.com/usbcoli.html
> They serve the same purpose as a lighted keyboard, They are LED lights
> and
> are designed to plug into the USB in the front of the tower (tower on
> desk,
> of course), or into a laptop. If the tower lacks a USB port in front,
> a USB
> cable should solve that problem.
> PS: For computing in dim light, avoid black keyboards.

There is a dilator muscle to open the pupil. There is a sphincter
muscle to close it. You wouldn't need a muscle to open your pupil if
the sphincter muscle automatically relaxed AND extended when it relaxed.
Muscles work in pairs. You'll need one muscle to flex your arm and
another muscle to extend it; otherwise, you would flex your arm and it
would be stuck there until you shook it violently to use gravity or
leverage against another object to forcibly extend the muscle. Muscles
ONLY contract. See
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/the_eye/iris.html#pupil, which says:

"As the amount of light entering the eye diminishes (such as in the dark
or at night), the iris dilator muscle (which runs radially through the
iris like spokes on a wheel) pulls away from the center, causing the
pupil to "dilate" and allowing more light to reach the retina. When too
much light is entering the eye, the iris sphincter muscle (which
encircles the pupil) pulls toward the center, causing the pupil to
"constrict" and allowing less light to reach the retina."
Muscles must work in pairs. There *is* a muscle, the dilator muscle,
used to open your iris to enlarge your pupil (and a sphincter muscle to
reduce the pupil size). What, you actually thought your muscles work
singly with no opposing muscle? If that were true, the first time you
flexed any muscle then it would stay nearly flexed (it doesn't relax to
its full extension length). You would end up flexed into a ball of
pain.

If all muscles relaxed upon death (*and* if that relaxation caused full
extension of the muscle) then there would be no such thing as "dead
man's grip" or facial grimace. As to why the dilator muscle in the iris
should constrict on death, that I don't know but then I don't know why
the other muscles constrict, either. Perhaps if a pathologist joins the
discussion then we would both know the cause, but I suspect would be
like read Scientific American regarding as to why muscles do what they
do during death and then after death. Since other muscles constrict on
death then it is no real big surprise that the dilator muscle might also
constrict, and the result would be dilation of the pupil if the dilator
were stronger than the sphincter (although they work in pairs, they
don't need to be of equal strength). Could be both iris muscles
constrict on or after death and the dilator muscle is stronger. Could
be the chemicals produced after death only affect the dilator muscle. A
pathologist or coroner should know.

Pain will dilate the pupil and is one measure regarding health. It is
often used to gauge pain or illness in animals since we can't talk to
them. So if the eye dilates due to pain then it dilating due to death
is no big surprise, either. I did find:

'When your brain's acetylcholine/parasympathetic nervous systems go
wild, your sympathetic nervous function become even wilder and your eye
pupils dilate widely. When people are approaching to death, the pupils
dilate to an extremes. Sexual Orgasm, due to the sympathetic nervous
functions, produces instantaneous pupil dilation. That is, why Sexual
Orgasm is called "Little Death."'

So, next time, look into her eyes to gauge your performance.

07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:e9yeMiLWFHA.2664@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> No need to write me an multi-page essay to justify the person's
> comment.

Nope, just one paragraph. The other paragraphs addressed other issues.

> I can type very fast and accurately not having to look at the keyboard
> all the time... but I do occasionally glance down at the keyboard as I
> am not an expert like yourself or that other dickhead who responded.

We all do that, especially for the far-reached keys or anytime our
fingers are moved from the "home" positions on the keyboard (notice the
little bumps of the keys for you to feel where are the home positions).
However, if glancing down at the keyboard means you cannot determine
where you fingers are in relation to the keys on the keyboard, you are
working in far too dark an environment and which is obviously an easily
solvable situation. If you don't like electric lights while you are
"working" (sounds more like you are gaming) then go get one or two
candles as they may help set the mood for the game, er, work you are
playing, er, using.

> Yeah, so check it out dude -- I didn't bother to read past the first
> paragraph of your response

Then how do you qualify your proclamation regarding the tone or attitude
of my post? Guess you really didn't want a solution because it was
there at the end. Remember that we don't work for you, so we may answer
in any tone and use any attitude we want. Usenet is the wrong place for
you, Danny. You don't have the maturity or thick-skinned, teflon-coated
ego needed to survive here. Keep on playing, er, working in the dark
and you'll eventually be "rewarded". Already you are talking about
getting glasses.

MikeP
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
http://www.fentek-ind.com/illuminated.htm

"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23q439$JWFHA.3488@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hi all.
>
> I know this is off-topic, but I figured I might be able to get a better
> response here since there are alot of people participating.
>
> Does anyone have or use an illuminated keyboard? I am often sitting in
> front of my computer late at night, and sometimes I want to turn off the
> lights but then I'll have difficulty viewing the keys on the keyboard.
> Not to mention that the contrast between the screen brightness and then
> sstraining to look at a dark keyboard might contribute to some of those
> computer vision syndrome related problems. Because I work in IT, I'll
> often spend over 10 hours a day sitting in front of a computer screen, and
> I do get odd headaches and eye strain every now and again.
>
> I'll probably need to go see an eye specialist who can prescribe special
> computer glasses (like regular glasses, but prescribed specifically for
> computer use), but in the meantime I think an illluminated keyboard is
> something that might also help.
>
> I searched on ebay using "illumiated keyboard" and got several hits, but
> they all look like no-name or unknown companies selling them. I found
> some others selling at a local computer shop, but those particular models
> has negative reviews where people stated they were substandard quality for
> a keyboard.
>
> Can anyone recommend a particular brand or model? Thanks!
>
> dan
>

danny
07-09-2005, 11:27 PM
<Vanguard> wrote in message news:%23fTBdCMWFHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "T. Waters" <@$%$%#^@jdjgkl.com> wrote in message
> news:euTXYgLWFHA.2740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
>> Quote (from Vanguard):
>> "The additional light will also force your pupil to be smaller (it
>> takes
>> muscles to open your pupil, and when working in dim light for extended
>> times
>> then those muscles will get sore from constantly keeping your pupils open
>> wider to take in more light because you reduced the brightness of the
>> monitor)."
>
>> Actually, you have it backwards. Have you ever looked into the eyes of
>> a
>> dead person? The pupil is wide open. It is bright light that causes a
>> muscle
>> reflex (in the living). Further, staring into a computer screen would not
>> cause great pupil dilation, as the screen is actually quite bright. There
>> could be some fatigue caused by looking back and forth from the screen to
>> the keyboard, if the keyboard were very dim.
>> In addition to lighted keyboards, there are "USB computer lights" of
>> which I have seen many lately. These lights are not expensive at all:
>> http://www.exploratoriumstore.com/usbcoli.html
>> They serve the same purpose as a lighted keyboard, They are LED lights
>> and
>> are designed to plug into the USB in the front of the tower (tower on
>> desk,
>> of course), or into a laptop. If the tower lacks a USB port in front, a
>> USB
>> cable should solve that problem.
>> PS: For computing in dim light, avoid black keyboards.
>
> There is a dilator muscle to open the pupil. There is a sphincter muscle
> to close it. You wouldn't need a muscle to open your pupil if the
> sphincter muscle automatically relaxed AND extended when it relaxed.
> Muscles work in pairs. You'll need one muscle to flex your arm and
> another muscle to extend it; otherwise, you would flex your arm and it
> would be stuck there until you shook it violently to use gravity or
> leverage against another object to forcibly extend the muscle. Muscles
> ONLY contract. See http://www.tedmontgomery.com/the_eye/iris.html#pupil,
> which says:
>
> "As the amount of light entering the eye diminishes (such as in the dark
> or at night), the iris dilator muscle (which runs radially through the
> iris like spokes on a wheel) pulls away from the center, causing the pupil
> to "dilate" and allowing more light to reach the retina. When too much
> light is entering the eye, the iris sphincter muscle (which encircles the
> pupil) pulls toward the center, causing the pupil to "constrict" and
> allowing less light to reach the retina."
> Muscles must work in pairs. There *is* a muscle, the dilator muscle, used
> to open your iris to enlarge your pupil (and a sphincter muscle to reduce
> the pupil size). What, you actually thought your muscles work singly with
> no opposing muscle? If that were true, the first time you flexed any
> muscle then it would stay nearly flexed (it doesn't relax to its full
> extension length). You would end up flexed into a ball of pain.
>
> If all muscles relaxed upon death (*and* if that relaxation caused full
> extension of the muscle) then there would be no such thing as "dead man's
> grip" or facial grimace. As to why the dilator muscle in the iris should
> constrict on death, that I don't know but then I don't know why the other
> muscles constrict, either. Perhaps if a pathologist joins the discussion
> then we would both know the cause, but I suspect would be like read
> Scientific American regarding as to why muscles do what they do during
> death and then after death. Since other muscles constrict on death then
> it is no real big surprise that the dilator muscle might also constrict,
> and the result would be dilation of the pupil if the dilator were stronger
> than the sphincter (although they work in pairs, they don't need to be of
> equal strength). Could be both iris muscles constrict on or after death
> and the dilator muscle is stronger. Could be the chemicals produced after
> death only affect the dilator muscle. A pathologist or coroner should
> know.
>
> Pain will dilate the pupil and is one measure regarding health. It is
> often used to gauge pain or illness in animals since we can't talk to
> them. So if the eye dilates due to pain then it dilating due to death is
> no big surprise, either. I did find:
>
> 'When your brain's acetylcholine/parasympathetic nervous systems go wild,
> your sympathetic nervous function become even wilder and your eye pupils
> dilate widely. When people are approaching to death, the pupils dilate to
> an extremes. Sexual Orgasm, due to the sympathetic nervous functions,
> produces instantaneous pupil dilation. That is, why Sexual Orgasm is
> called "Little Death."'
>
> So, next time, look into her eyes to gauge your performance.
>

All I asked was if anyone knows any good illuminated keyboards. But thanks
for the medical review of the pupil and how it works.

Al Smith
07-09-2005, 11:28 PM
> Actually, you have it backwards. Have you ever looked into the eyes of a
> dead person? The pupil is wide open.

Let me think about this, because I want to get it right .... Nooooo.

Leythos
07-09-2005, 11:28 PM
In article <e5OgtjNWFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, dan27@kmail.com
says...
> All I asked was if anyone knows any good illuminated keyboards.

I wonder if you could use one of those flexible (sort of like silicone)
keyboards that have a translucent backing and then attach a USB type LED
device to it so that the LED illumination would spread over the surface?

--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

07-09-2005, 11:28 PM
"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5OgtjNWFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> All I asked was if anyone knows any good illuminated keyboards. But
> thanks for the medical review of the pupil and how it works.


My reply was to Waters, not to you. It was a subthread started by
Waters in response to one of several topics that were included in my
prior post.

danny
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:

> I wonder if you could use one of those flexible (sort of like silicone)
> keyboards that have a translucent backing and then attach a USB type LED
> device to it so that the LED illumination would spread over the surface?

Hey Leythos. That's a good idea... something which T.Waters also mentioned.
I think the USB light stick would be a good option for use on a keyboard
which has a built in USB slot. That way there would be minimal "distance"
between keyboard and light. Some newer USB keyboards make use of this.

Apparently there are a few typing scholars on this thread who seem to not be
too interested in keyboards with built in lighting, as their advanced
prowess and familiarity with the keyboard would negate the inclusion and use
of such a silly feature. Hehe.... after reading this thread and "learning"
that such keybords are available, they probably be amongst the first people
to go out and place their order.

dan

Leythos
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
In article <ueqTe#VWFHA.2796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, dan27@kmail.com
says...
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if you could use one of those flexible (sort of like silicone)
> > keyboards that have a translucent backing and then attach a USB type LED
> > device to it so that the LED illumination would spread over the surface?
>
> Hey Leythos. That's a good idea... something which T.Waters also mentioned.
> I think the USB light stick would be a good option for use on a keyboard
> which has a built in USB slot. That way there would be minimal "distance"
> between keyboard and light. Some newer USB keyboards make use of this.
>
> Apparently there are a few typing scholars on this thread who seem to not be
> too interested in keyboards with built in lighting, as their advanced
> prowess and familiarity with the keyboard would negate the inclusion and use
> of such a silly feature. Hehe.... after reading this thread and "learning"
> that such keybords are available, they probably be amongst the first people
> to go out and place their order.

There are times, on a night flight or in a industrial location, where a
laptop does not provide enough illumination for fast work, even though I
can touch type I still like to see the work area. A lighted translucent
keyboard would be nice, as long as the key letters/characters were
illuminated and not just the area around the keys.

I've seen people make illuminated mouse pads, using lexan, sanding the
areas they want to illuminate (as the clear part doesn't "show" well)
and then using a USB cord for the LED power.

Here is a list of illuminated keyboards:
http://www.nextag.com/buyer/outpdir.jsp?nxtg=fb988_8DA7BE15CC599050
&search=illuminated+keyboard


--
--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
danny wrote:
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if you could use one of those flexible (sort of like
>> silicone) keyboards that have a translucent backing and then attach
>> a USB type LED device to it so that the LED illumination would
>> spread over the surface?
>
> Hey Leythos. That's a good idea... something which T.Waters also
> mentioned. I think the USB light stick would be a good option for use
> on a keyboard which has a built in USB slot. That way there would be
> minimal "distance" between keyboard and light. Some newer USB
> keyboards make use of this.
> Apparently there are a few typing scholars on this thread who seem to
> not be too interested in keyboards with built in lighting, as their
> advanced prowess and familiarity with the keyboard would negate the
> inclusion and use of such a silly feature. Hehe.... after reading
> this thread and "learning" that such keybords are available, they
> probably be amongst the first people to go out and place their order.
>
> dan

We already have to pay more for a keyboard for all the morons that need
the keys labeled! We don't need to pay more so that morons can type in
the dark too!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

danny
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:

> There are times, on a night flight or in a industrial location, where a
> laptop does not provide enough illumination for fast work, even though I
> can touch type I still like to see the work area. A lighted translucent
> keyboard would be nice, as long as the key letters/characters were
> illuminated and not just the area around the keys.

Good points. My IBM ThinkPad has a small ligt along the top frame of the
LCD. Very discrete looking and it turns on and off using an fn key
shortcut. When its off, you can't even notice its there. But I know what
you mean about having keys which illuminate rather than the area around the
keys. Like the way cell phones have keypad backlighting, I think this is a
nice feature to have on a keyboard even if you already can type without
looking at the keys. As you said, even if you can touch type it is helpful
to be able to see the work area. In my case, I often work late into the
night and sometimes I'll want to turn off the lights in my office, so this
is where this would come in handy.

> Here is a list of illuminated keyboards:
> http://www.nextag.com/buyer/outpdir.jsp?nxtg=fb988_8DA7BE15CC599050&search=illuminated+keyboard

Thanks for the link. Some of those don't look too bad. I think the best
keyboard in terms of layout and lighting I have seen so far, is the Eclipse
model which DBCoopers suggested -
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/eclipse.htm

dan

danny
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:

> We already have to pay more for a keyboard for all the morons that need
> the keys labeled! We don't need to pay more so that morons can type in
> the dark too!

You should lead an effort to design and market a new style of keyboard which
doesn't have any keys labelled. As a special incentive to potential buyers,
you could bundle it with a free copy of your book, "Learn how to type
without looking at the keyboard."

dan

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
danny wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>> We already have to pay more for a keyboard for all the morons that
>> need the keys labeled! We don't need to pay more so that morons can
>> type in the dark too!
>
> You should lead an effort to design and market a new style of
> keyboard which doesn't have any keys labelled. As a special
> incentive to potential buyers, you could bundle it with a free copy
> of your book, "Learn how to type without looking at the keyboard."
>
> dan

Who needs a book? I didn't need no stinking book to learn how to type
without looking.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

danny
07-09-2005, 11:30 PM
"NobodyMan" <none@none.net> wrote:

> Strange - the subject header was EXACTLY the same, which is why I
> noticed it. You're wrong. Not that I expect you'll admit it, of
> course.

Go take a look at the OP, and note down on a scrap piece of paper who it was
that changed the subject in their response. It wasn't me. And maybe if you
fixed your news client you might get better results. Using a messed up or
incorrectly configured Forte Agent will do it. I am using outlook and all
these posts are contained in one grouped thread. Problem is, its a stupid
user problem on YOUR end, but you are so stupid to realize or even consider
that. Its ok though, at least you typed your post without even once looking
at the keyboard, good boy.. here's a milkbone for ya..

> Well spoken - if you are twelve years old. Does you mommy and daddy
> know you are at the computer?

My response was just as silly and pointless as you having to remind me that
you typed your message without looking at the keyboard. Look at the subject
line in the OP moron. I was asking if anyone knows of any illuminated
keyboards, that's all.

People like you shouldn't be allowed to use computers.

dan

07-09-2005, 11:30 PM
"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:O6Yf3VeWFHA.4036@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "NobodyMan" <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> Strange - the subject header was EXACTLY the same, which is why I
>> noticed it. You're wrong. Not that I expect you'll admit it, of
>> course.
>
> Go take a look at the OP, and note down on a scrap piece of paper who
> it was that changed the subject in their response. It wasn't me. And
> maybe if you fixed your news client you might get better results.
> Using a messed up or incorrectly configured Forte Agent will do it. I
> am using outlook and all these posts are contained in one grouped
> thread. Problem is, its a stupid user problem on YOUR end, but you
> are so stupid to realize or even consider that. Its ok though, at
> least you typed your post without even once looking at the keyboard,
> good boy.. here's a milkbone for ya..


I haven't followed all of this about who changed the Subject header.
Danny, Nobody, or both don't realize that different NNTP clients will
behave differently. Notice when the Subject header changed that in each
occurrence the respondent was using Outlook Express. Even Danny uses
OE. So, as a test while using OE, go reply to the original post and
notice what OE uses for the Subject header. It strips out the
"<prefix>:" string and prepends the "Re:" string. I am using the same
version of Outlook Express as Danny, and replying to his original post
with the "OT:" prefix results in it getting stripped out (and the "Re:"
string getting prepended).

NobodyMan is using Forte and I don't know what is its behavior regarding
retention or stripping of prefixes in the Subject header. However, even
Forte should be able to handle threading properly using the References
header, so I don't understand his complaint regarding Danny starting a
*separate* thread. If Nobody is seeing separate threads then there is
something wrong with his configuration of Forte as it should use the
References header FIRST to thread the posts and then fallback to using
the Subject header if the References header is missing.

kurttrail, Jack, and MikeP answered using OE so the "OT:" prefix got
stripped by OE. Steve and Cooper answered using Mozilla (Thunderbird?)
and Xnews, so the "OT:" string was correctly retained and the "Re:"
prefix was prepended to the Subject header. If you don't like the
behavior of OE then send feedback to Microsoft requesting a change in
behavior. Other than OE stripping off the "OT:" prefix string, I saw no
other change to the Subject header, and the References header was there
to provide the proper hierarchical threading.

Yves Leclerc
07-09-2005, 11:30 PM
There are a few keyboards. However, I would by-pass any "deck" keyboards
(http://www.deckkeyboards.com/) as they are not to 104 keys standards.


"danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote in message
news:O6Yf3VeWFHA.4036@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "NobodyMan" <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> Strange - the subject header was EXACTLY the same, which is why I
>> noticed it. You're wrong. Not that I expect you'll admit it, of
>> course.
>
> Go take a look at the OP, and note down on a scrap piece of paper who it
> was that changed the subject in their response. It wasn't me. And maybe
> if you fixed your news client you might get better results. Using a
> messed up or incorrectly configured Forte Agent will do it. I am using
> outlook and all these posts are contained in one grouped thread. Problem
> is, its a stupid user problem on YOUR end, but you are so stupid to
> realize or even consider that. Its ok though, at least you typed your
> post without even once looking at the keyboard, good boy.. here's a
> milkbone for ya..
>
>> Well spoken - if you are twelve years old. Does you mommy and daddy
>> know you are at the computer?
>
> My response was just as silly and pointless as you having to remind me
> that you typed your message without looking at the keyboard. Look at the
> subject line in the OP moron. I was asking if anyone knows of any
> illuminated keyboards, that's all.
>
> People like you shouldn't be allowed to use computers.
>
> dan
>

BBUNNY
07-09-2005, 11:31 PM
danny wrote:
| "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:
|
|| There are times, on a night flight or in a industrial location,
|| where a laptop does not provide enough illumination for fast work,
|| even though I can touch type I still like to see the work area. A
|| lighted translucent keyboard would be nice, as long as the key
|| letters/characters were illuminated and not just the area around the
|| keys.
|
| Good points. My IBM ThinkPad has a small ligt along the top frame of
| the LCD. Very discrete looking and it turns on and off using an fn
| key shortcut. When its off, you can't even notice its there. But I
| know what you mean about having keys which illuminate rather than the
| area around the keys. Like the way cell phones have keypad
| backlighting, I think this is a nice feature to have on a keyboard
| even if you already can type without looking at the keys. As you
| said, even if you can touch type it is helpful to be able to see the
| work area. In my case, I often work late into the night and
| sometimes I'll want to turn off the lights in my office, so this is
| where this would come in handy.
|
|| Here is a list of illuminated keyboards:
||
http://www.nextag.com/buyer/outpdir.jsp?nxtg=fb988_8DA7BE15CC599050&search=illuminated+keyboard
|
| Thanks for the link. Some of those don't look too bad. I think the
| best keyboard in terms of layout and lighting I have seen so far, is
| the Eclipse model which DBCoopers suggested -
| http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/eclipse.htm
|
| dan

danny
07-09-2005, 11:31 PM
"Yves Leclerc" <yleclercNOSPAM@maysys.com> wrote:

> There are a few keyboards. However, I would by-pass any "deck" keyboards
> (http://www.deckkeyboards.com/) as they are not to 104 keys standards.

I agree with you Yves. Although it does look like a high quality piece of
hardware, supposedly having an led under each key, the keyboard looks a bit
too restrictive by its smaller size and key arrangement.

Here's a good review of the Eclipse with some excellent photos. The key
backlighting looks amazing on this model...
http://www.moddershq.net/reviews.asp?reviewid=96&pagenumber=1

Some people will need to take the sticks out of their butts if they can't
admit this is a cool product without having to reassure everyone that a good
typist would never require "lighting".

dan

NobodyMan
07-09-2005, 11:33 PM
On Mon, 16 May 2005 03:01:19 -0400, "danny" <dan27@kmail.com> wrote:

>> Strange - the subject header was EXACTLY the same, which is why I
>> noticed it. You're wrong. Not that I expect you'll admit it, of
>> course.
>
>Go take a look at the OP, and note down on a scrap piece of paper who it was
>that changed the subject in their response. It wasn't me. And maybe if you
>fixed your news client you might get better results. Using a messed up or
>incorrectly configured Forte Agent will do it. I am using outlook and all
>these posts are contained in one grouped thread. Problem is, its a stupid
>user problem on YOUR end, but you are so stupid to realize or even consider
>that. Its ok though, at least you typed your post without even once looking
>at the keyboard, good boy.. here's a milkbone for ya..

Now you have just shown your plain ignorance:

"I am using outlook and all these posts are contained in one grouped
thread."

Here's the problem with that statement: OUTLOOK DOESN'T HAVE A
NEWSGROUP READER BUILT INTO IT. You just took away any credibility I
may have ever given you.

danny
07-09-2005, 11:33 PM
"NobodyMan" <none@none.net> wrote:

> Now you have just shown your plain ignorance:
>
> "I am using outlook and all these posts are contained in one grouped
> thread."
>
> Here's the problem with that statement: OUTLOOK DOESN'T HAVE A
> NEWSGROUP READER BUILT INTO IT. You just took away any credibility I
> may have ever given you.

Nobody man, I am using outlook express. I forgot to mention the "express"..
sorry. And you are right, outlook does not have newsgroup. I don't want to
argue anymore, I'm tired now and getting ready to hit the sack. I think
part of the problem is the way Outlook Express strips out the "OT" when
doing a reply/group. This is probably why evil kurt did not include it in
his first response to this thread. Perhaps I should not have mentioned the
OT, but I thought it would be appropriate as this whole agenda of the
illuminated keyboard isn't really related to the theme of this ng.

I'd like to apologize to all of you for getting a little rowdy on this
thread. The first comment from mr.kurt caught me off guard.... I should
have just ignored it. Anyways, I think you're all a fine bunch of gents.
Let's call it a wrap and move onto the next topic boys.

dan

kurttrail
07-09-2005, 11:33 PM
danny wrote:
> "NobodyMan" <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> Now you have just shown your plain ignorance:
>>
>> "I am using outlook and all these posts are contained in one grouped
>> thread."
>>
>> Here's the problem with that statement: OUTLOOK DOESN'T HAVE A
>> NEWSGROUP READER BUILT INTO IT. You just took away any credibility I
>> may have ever given you.
>
> Nobody man, I am using outlook express. I forgot to mention the
> "express".. sorry. And you are right, outlook does not have
> newsgroup. I don't want to argue anymore, I'm tired now and getting
> ready to hit the sack. I think part of the problem is the way
> Outlook Express strips out the "OT" when doing a reply/group. This
> is probably why evil kurt did not include it in his first response to
> this thread. Perhaps I should not have mentioned the OT, but I
> thought it would be appropriate as this whole agenda of the
> illuminated keyboard isn't really related to the theme of this ng.
> I'd like to apologize to all of you for getting a little rowdy on this
> thread. The first comment from mr.kurt caught me off guard.... I
> should have just ignored it. Anyways, I think you're all a fine bunch
> of gents. Let's call it a wrap and move onto the next topic boys.
>
> dan

"Learn to type without looking at the keyboard." The only off putting
thing about this answer is that you think you are incapable to learn how
to type without looking.

http://microscum.com/kurtdevil.gif

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

WaldoŽ
07-10-2005, 12:19 AM
saitek is good


--
WaldoŽ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WaldoŽ's Profile: http://forums.webrats.com.au/member.php?userid=1
View this thread: http://forums.webrats.com/showthread.php?t=55718
evilboobies.com.... girls cars and more


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

WaldoŽ
07-10-2005, 12:19 AM
saitek is good


--
WaldoŽ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WaldoŽ's Profile: http://forums.webrats.com.au/member.php?userid=1
View this thread: http://forums.webrats.com/showthread.php?t=55718
evilboobies.com.... girls cars and more


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

WaldoŽ
07-10-2005, 12:19 AM
saitek is good


--
WaldoŽ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WaldoŽ's Profile: http://forums.webrats.com.au/member.php?userid=1
View this thread: http://forums.webrats.com/showthread.php?t=55718
evilboobies.com.... girls cars and more



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


OT: Anyone know of a good illuminated keyboard?